Re: KDE Neon and how to handle this?

The KDE board itself describes Neon as a distro.  That's already been
talked about in this thread.  So... no.  You're absolutely wrong.  The
article is demonstrably right there based on the statements from your
own board.  Saying it is "not a distro" also doesn't pass the sniff
test.

Also the original KDE Neon Faq explicitly stated that Ubuntu is a
technologically superior distro.  This has since been updated
(slightly) to be the opinion of the "KDE Neon" team.

Again.  You are wrong.  The article is accurate.  I understand this
may upset you... but it's the reality.  Now focus on how best to
present your community to the rest of the world and I will work with
you to help you do that.

-Bryan

On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 5:24 PM, Lamarque Souza <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Bryan,
>
> In the first sentence of your article you wrote 'KDE announced its own Linux
> distribution, dubbed "KDE Neon.' where "Linux distribution" is linked to
> this article https://dot.kde.org/2016/01/30/fosdem-announcing-kde-neon.
> There is no word "distribution" written in that article. Neon is always
> called a "KDE Project", not "KDE Distribution" there.
>
> In the link attached to "interview by Swapnil Bhartiya over at CIO.com"
> sentence Riddel answers the question "Is it a KDE distribution? If so, what
> is the base?" with "It’s a KDE project just like hundreds of other projects
> are part of KDE.  As KDE makes a lot of great software it makes sense to
> work as part of that team directly rather than be in some separate project."
> You seemed to completely ignore his answer and continue calling Neon a KDE
> distribution instead of a KDE Project during your article.
>
> The sentence "The KDE neon team is familiar with Ubuntu" in Neon's FAQ
> pretty much explains why they used Ubuntu LTS as base. Anyone in Open Source
> world would like to work with what they know better, a LTS distribution
> makes a lot of sense for a project like Neon, that is also explained in
> http://www.cio.com/article/3027639/linux/kubuntu-founder-jonathan-riddell-to-announce-project-neon-at-fosdem.html.
>
> Using Ubuntu in no way implies that other distributions are bad like you
> insinuated with "That's right, Arch users. And openSUSE users. And Gentoo,
> Fedora, Debian, Mageia, and Slackware users (among others). KDE now has a
> FAQ declaring that Ubuntu is "the best technology." and "... they all
> stink". That last sentence was really rude and you implied that the whole
> KDE (not only Neon team) thinks that about distributions other than Ubuntu.
> That is not nice and not fair with KDE. OBS: I use Gentoo, I do *not* feel
> offended by Neon using Ubuntu LTS as base and I voted in favor of Neon to
> become a KDE *project*.
>
> Sorry but Valorie is right. You did that just to bump your readership. If
> you really wanted to help you should have used Riddel's answer to "Is it a
> KDE distribution? If so, what is the base?" and not just plain ignoring it.
> You can do the right thing now and edit your article and quote Riddel's
> answer in your article. Something you should have done from the beginning.
>
>
> Lamarque V. Souza
>
> http://planetkde.org/pt-br
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 10:41 PM, Bryan Lunduke <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Everything I wrote was accurate based on the information provided in
>> Riddell's announcement (and linked interview) and the Neon website.
>> If those are not accurate (or are misleading) then there is (possibly)
>> the root of the problem.  If you can point to something I wrote that
>> is demonstrably inaccurate based on those sources of information (as
>> they stood at the time of publication) then please do so and I will
>> quickly, and gladly, issue a correction in the follow-up article.
>>
>> As for the attacks... those have been talked about to death and have
>> been covered in this thread and elsewhere (including over on G+).  I
>> have no need to press on that topic as it does nothing productive.  I
>> do, however, hope that you can work with your community members to
>> prepare a statement for the next article that will better represent
>> the KDE community.
>>
>> -Bryan
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Valorie Zimmerman
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Woah, woah, woah. Please everyone stop and take a breath. Remember our
>> > lovely code of conduct.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Boudewijn Rempt <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 11 Feb 2016, Bryan Lunduke wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> No.  That's criticism.  Criticism is cool.  I disagree with you, but
>> >>> you're totally entitled to your opinion.  :)  (SUSE hired me knowing
>> >>> full well who I am and what I do.  They've never censored me.  That's
>> >>> one of the great things about, not just SUSE, but many in the FOSS
>> >>> world.)
>> >>>
>> >>> Ad hominem and person attacks?  Not great.  Those sorts of attacks
>> >>> should be dealt with swiftly and publicly in order to keep bad
>> >>> backlash from occurring.
>> >
>> > Brian, you wrote an article based on inaccuracies to bump up your
>> > readership. You got a reaction with some anger about that. Please
>> > state what personal attacks you received?
>> >
>> >> Well, so should dumb and knee-jerk articles with out-of-order headlines
>> >> be dealt with: swiftly, and at the knees. You should not have written
>> >> this
>> >> shit. Now, of course, the question is, why did you write it? I guess
>> >> it's
>> >> simply stupid fear. Suse has been left behind. Gnome has, of course,
>> >> its
>> >> own pet distribution, Fedora. Unity has its own, Ubuntu. Suse has
>> >> vacillated
>> >> and dropped the ball. It never cared for anybody in particular, and now
>> >> nobody cares for suse. And when Canonical kicked out Kubuntu, the team,
>> >> who
>> >> have always been KDE community members, decided to strike out on their
>> >> own.
>> >> And Suse is, once again, left out in the cold, because you guys were
>> >> vacillating when you needed to be decisive. To be extremely impolitic,
>> >> you've turned yourselves into the spinsters or perennial bachelors of
>> >> the Linux
>> >> world. Too afraid too choose, you're now to old to have anything to
>> >> chose between.
>> >
>> > Canonical didn't kick out Kubuntu. They stopped directly supporting
>> > the project with paid work. And please remember the CoC -- no matter
>> > what Brian said, or SuSE did, or Canonical did, etc. -- we should
>> > remain measured in our response.
>> >
>> >> And now you're pissed, and you write dumb screeds and you're pissed
>> >> when
>> >> people take the piss; I don't envy you.
>> >>
>> >> But not to worry; as has been clear from the start, KDE is a project
>> >> that
>> >> transcends your worries. You want Suse to become an "official" KDE
>> >> project,
>> >> just like gcompris, krita, neon or amarok: join up and become one.
>> >> You're
>> >> welcome.
>> >
>> > This bit is true; I'm a small part of the Neon team, but I say: if you
>> > want to do what Neon is doing within KDE rather then under the wings
>> > of a distro, go do it! The more ways we get to use KDE software, the
>> > more users we have.
>> >
>> >>> -Bryan
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Boudewijn Rempt <[email protected]>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2016, Bryan Lunduke wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Let me start by saying that I am a *huge* fan of KDE.  I've been an
>> >>>>> incredibly vocal supporter and advocate for many years -- and plan
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> continue to be well into the future.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> That said, I was confused and disappointed by the way the KDE Neon
>> >>>>> announcement occurred.  Causing me to write the following article:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> http://www.networkworld.com/article/3032063/opensource-subnet/kdes-new-linux-distro-terrible-idea-or-simply-a-huge-mistake.html
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The response from the likes of Jonathan Riddell (and a small number
>> >>>>> of
>> >>>>> others) was nothing short of... terrible.  Personal, ad hominen
>> >>>>> attacks that just make KDE look terrible.
>> >
>> > Link to those attacks please.
>> >
>> >>>> Maybe the "social marketing manager for suse" shouldn't have written
>> >>>> an article with as inflammatory a title as that one? Was that a
>> >>>> really
>> >>>> smart, savvy move? I've been a suse user and fan for over a decade...
>> >>>> But you're making me wonder why.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Of course you'll assume that me saying that is a personal attack as
>> >>>> well, I don't doubt that...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> In any case, as far as I am concerned, the relation between Neon and
>> >>>> KDE is the same as between my project and KDE: both are KDE projects.
>> >>>> Some people don't like that, but tant pis.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.krita.org, http://www.valdyas.org
>> >
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.krita.org, http://www.valdyas.org
>> >
>> > Valorie, for the CWG (Community Working Group)
>> >
>> > --
>> > http://about.me/valoriez
>> >
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