Promo Team Meeting 20190307 - logs and minutes

Minutes:

1. Promo Sprint: When and where (https://phabricator.kde.org/T10580)

Decided to give ourselves a week to decide on a venue and a date.

2. Long Term Goals: Keeping projects on track (https://community.kde.org/Promo%27s_Long_Term_Goals)

Agreeed that all projects brought to Promo must be in synch with one or several of the goals.
New members myust be made aware of the goals.
discussed the need for more an better sources of information so we can better monitor our progress.

3. Lessons from the Matrix announcement

Agreed to put into effect safeguards, such as more expert and peer reviews, and sign offs so as to ensure information we publish is factually correct and in synch with our values.

4. Attract existing FLOSS software projects to KDE and incorporate their members into our community (https://phabricator.kde.org/T10034) and look at @GB_2's poll results

Not enough results to be able to figure out what the community prefers
Decided there must be multiple factors (not only the community preferences) when it comes to approaching a project
Agreed we must make a list of "selling points" to convince projects to join
Agreed we must make a list of requirements to ensure projects integrate well and completely

[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:00:28 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Shall we start?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:00:38 (CET)] <totte>	Present.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:01:43 (CET)] <skadinna>	+1
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:01:53 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Ivana, Ilya and Bhushan are here too
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:01:56 (CET)] 	 * hein also here, mostly lurking
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:02:04 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Eike!
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:02:07 (CET)] <IrcsomeBot1>	<GB_2> Hi
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:02:10 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Excellent
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:02:45 (CET)] <bshah[m]>	I'm going sleep... 😴😴😴
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:02:57 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	So the first matter of business is where we are going to go and get dr--- I mean, have our Promo sprint
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:03:10 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	(Good night Bhushan Shah )
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:03:29 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We have a taks up to decide this
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:03:41 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	https://phabricator.kde.org/T10580
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:03:59 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We don't have to decide this right now, but it would be good to give it, say, a week
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:04:23 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	So we can plan travel, accommodation, etc.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:04:29 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Before we get into Akademy season
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:04:29 (CET)] <isadora[m]>	I've posted my suggestion already, but didn't give any good arguments for it, so I'll work on that
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:04:45 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	<isadora[m] "I've posted my suggestion alread"> Your reason is fine
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:05:02 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Synchronising with the ongoing people is a good reason
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:05:14 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	onboarding
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:06:12 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	I also have a reason for the weekend of the 21st - 23rd of June, though
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:06:52 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	And the reason is, apart from me, we don't have anybody confirmed to manage the booth at OpenExpo
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:07:43 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	My reasoning is, we meet at OpenExpo, work together on a promotional task
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:07:56 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	and then go and do our sprint
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:08:57 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Hello!
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:08:58 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Anyway, as we were saying
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:08:58 (CET)] <isadora[m]>	Your plan makes perfect sense to me, but the problem is I already have vacation booked from 21st to 27th June 😞 and I don't think I can cancel anymore
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:09:29 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Ah!
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:09:31 (CET)] <isadora[m]>	So you'd have to do the sprint without me...which of course, is fine, as long as it works for other people
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:09:32 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	That is a dealbreaker
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:10:06 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Ok ok
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:10:06 (CET)] <isadora[m]>	But yeah...some time in May would be best for me; I don't have anything planned at all the whole month
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:10:27 (CET)] <isadora[m]>	Sorry for the delay, I seem to have a bit of a lag here
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:10:45 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Let's work on reaching an arrangement that worksfor as many people as possible on the task
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:11:12 (CET)] <isadora[m]>	👍
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:11:18 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	I would like to say that we need more staff for that booth, though
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:12:04 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Let me drag up the task URL
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:12:07 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	https://phabricator.kde.org/T10539
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:12:25 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Notice that it is in Madrid
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:12:26 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	And, at the same time,
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:12:38 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	there is a Plasma Sprint (?) in Valencia
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:12:43 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	(also Spain)
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:13:06 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Valencia is about 2 hours high speed train ride from Madrid
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:13:11 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	So if anybody is going to that
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:13:25 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Maybe make a day trip to Madrid?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:14:36 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	But, getting back to the topic
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:14:48 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Sprint
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:15:51 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Suggest what you would like to do on the task and we'll figure it out
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:16:05 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	As I say, let's try and sort it in week so it doesn't drag on, ok?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:17:38 (CET)] <isadora[m]>	Yes, the sooner we decide, the more time we'll have for planning and prep
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:17:48 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Yes
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:18:37 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Shall we move on to the next topic?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:18:52 (CET)] <totte>	Yeah.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:19:21 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Long Term Goals: Keeping projects on track
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:19:44 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Here's the thing...
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:20:10 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We ge a lot of suggestions and ideas bouncing around this group
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:20:15 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	And that is great
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:20:49 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We also decided some time ago to set ourselves some concrete aims to achieve
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:21:25 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	So it soul be good to frame those ideas in function of the goals
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:21:50 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	https://community.kde.org/Promo%27s_Long_Term_Goals
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:22:06 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Now the goals are not written in stone by any means
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:22:33 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Vut they do represente our best intentions
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:23:07 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	My advice is, that when you have an idea, you go and look at that page and think what goal it can help achieve
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:24:02 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Like that, I think, we will be able to have a clear objective for each project we decide to start
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:24:08 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	What do you think?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:24:30 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	So many typos
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:25:25 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Other people can speak too. Please don't let me lecture you
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:26:37 (CET)] <totte>	Like, if someone thinks we ought to organize a festival, explain in what way it would benefit the KDE brand.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:27:17 (CET)] <isadora[m]>	My concern/impression was that maybe not everyone is even aware that the goals have been finalized and published, so I tried to think of some ways to give them more visibility, both for current and potential new Promo members
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:27:51 (CET)] <isadora[m]>	But other than pasting the link everywhere, I don't know what else to do
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:27:55 (CET)] <totte>	Going B2B and holding events outside of Europe sounds like challenges.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:28:08 (CET)] <totte>	Are these finalized?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:28:27 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Well... We did publish a blog psot about them on the planet... Some people read things there
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:29:03 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	<isadora[m] "But other than pasting the link "> Welll... I guess the most basic thing is that the regular here know about them
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:29:35 (CET)] <totte>	It is linked to from https://community.kde.org/Promo.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:31:04 (CET)] <totte>	"make KDE, Plasma and some of KDE's more popular applications recognisable for at least 5% of the population over the next 5 years." - stuff like this probably need statistical data and graphs.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:31:12 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	I also don't want to offend anyone by saying "Go and read the goals!", so if I do say it to you (as in ayone reading this) it is because I don't yet see the relation between your idea and what it wants to achieve
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:31:21 (CET)] <isadora[m]>	That's the version 1.0 of the goals, yes. As Paul said, they're always up for discussion and improvement, but we had to start somewhere, so this is the first version we consider official
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:31:22 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	<freenode_tot "Like, if someone thinks we ought"> Yes
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:31:56 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	It is good to have very concrete (and achievable) goasl for each action you carry out
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:32:02 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Say, in a B2B event
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:32:33 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	"Talk to at least 5 managers and make sure they leave knowing what Kirigami can do for them"
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:33:02 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	(and you hold on to their business cards in case you need to follow up with them)
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:33:48 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Saying just "talk to people" is not concrete enough
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:34:24 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	You could even gamify it, if you want
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:35:10 (CET)] <totte>	If I was given such a task, I'd need specific instructions; obtain at least x business cards, inform at least x different managers of the following y facts about product z.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:35:18 (CET)] <totte>	Just my two cents.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:35:48 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	There is lag
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:35:52 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	one sec
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:36:02 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Yes, totte 
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:36:05 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Absolutely
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:36:21 (CET)] <totte>	I don't usually browse the web for how to do B2B deals though. Perhaps some other FLOSS community has already had this issue, and found a solution?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:36:43 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Well. we aren't going to do deals
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:36:54 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	This Promo and communication
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:36:59 (CET)] <totte>	Well, connections.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:37:00 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We are going to talk to people, inform them
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:37:05 (CET)] <totte>	s/deals/connections/
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:37:19 (CET)] <totte>	Connections as in spreading information.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:37:36 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Create the correct environment for deals to happen
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:37:48 (CET)] <totte>	Right.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:38:38 (CET)] <totte>	So the long term goals are looking good. Do they need improvement, or more visibility?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:39:04 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	<freenode_tot ""make KDE, Plasma and some of KD"> Yes, we collect data
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:39:39 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Every week we collect data from social media, pop cons, etx.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:40:02 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Every month we collect data from LinkedIn (B2B stuff)
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:40:14 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Getting good sources of information is a challenge
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:40:20 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	And anything anyone can help us with there, you are very welcome
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:40:25 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	I think we have a task
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:40:28 (CET)] <totte>	https://community.kde.org/Goals/Usability_%26_Productivity does this weekly blog thing where the past week is summarized.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:40:33 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	One sec
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:41:23 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	This is one part https://phabricator.kde.org/T6481
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:41:28 (CET)] Quit	Kon- (~Leevancle@unaffiliated/leevancleef) has left this server (Quit: Konversation terminated!).
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:42:05 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Lag is horrendous in Matrix
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:42:40 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	I am looking at the conversation both on IRC and Matrix
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:42:50 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Ok... so yes,
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:43:33 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Getting good source of data is an ongoing project. It hasn't got its own task because it will probably never end
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:43:51 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	It is just something we must always do: look for sources of data
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:44:12 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	So, again, anybody that can help with that, please do so
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:45:34 (CET)] <totte>	Perhaps if progress toward the goals is reported in a weekly or monthly digest, it could help summarize what has happened on https://phabricator.kde.org/project/profile/222/ for those who aren't involved or are intimidated by Phabricator (and similar software)?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:45:37 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	https://share.kde.org/s/ItlX9FfMunCADO5
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:45:56 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	That is where we are keeping the data
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:46:27 (CET)] <totte>	I mean, those are not easy or particularly tangible goals.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:46:33 (CET)] <totte>	It's not like "mow the lawn".
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:46:35 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Writing to it is restricted because some of the files are machine-generated
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:48:52 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We usually do a progress report for each sprint, at a BoF at Akademy and in a yearly written report
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:49:44 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Also, the data and charts are readable by all, so anybody can go and see what's happening at any given moment
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:49:47 (CET)] <totte>	Ah. I did not know that.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:50:38 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	I don't know, we could make it a more frequent thing, but that is not the main problem we have with the data
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:50:39 (CET)] <totte>	https://share.kde.org/s/ItlX9FfMunCADO5 is not loading for me, but I'll try again later. Using Piwik/Matomo is a good start.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:50:51 (CET)] <totte>	Oh, what's the main problem?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:52:08 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	The data we have is not enough to get a good picture of our progress
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:52:09 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	That is the main thing
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:53:42 (CET)] <totte>	Progress of brand awareness or adoption/usage?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:53:54 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Ok, back to the topic
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:54:04 (CET)] <isadora[m]>	We also don't have enough people willing to write such weekly updates...or at least it seems that way. As much as I love the idea, someone would have to do that, and no one has expressed much interest so far
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:55:13 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	The main point is: everybody here now must always think of the bigger picture of working towards the goals, and anyone new who pops in, we must direct them towards the goals so they are up to speed
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:55:36 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	<freenode_tot "Progress of brand awareness or a"> Both, totte 
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:55:51 (CET)] <totte>	Alright, yeah, ideas are great - working code is better. Or something like that.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:56:12 (CET)] <totte>	Would you like to move on to the next topic?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:56:15 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	yes!
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:56:27 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Yes
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:56:32 (CET)] <totte>	Yes?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:56:57 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Matrix announcement
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:57:03 (CET)] <totte>	Right.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:57:17 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We can all agree, I think, that it didn't go well within the community
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:57:33 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Although, the outside world seemed to accept it gracefully
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:57:48 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	There was no big flame war on reddit, for example
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:57:58 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Which was surprising
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:57:59 (CET)] <totte>	I guess, but I thought it was handled quickly by the community to prevent the outside world causing a fuss.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:58:32 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	I am not sure the outside world cared as much as the inside world, to be honest
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:58:55 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	It just was seen as "KDE does more stuff"
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [19:59:44 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	However, we cannot move on and make out like nothing happened
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:00:24 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	I, for my part, will be consulting more sources from now on
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:01:02 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	If we are asked to keep things quiet until announcement day (which is what happened here)
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:01:22 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We will try and involve more people who can advise on the matter anyway
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:01:54 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	And make sure they receive ALL the documentation and confirm they have received and read it
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:02:48 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	(In this case docs were scattered and, some people hadn't read or didn't get the memo to read one of the more controversial ones)
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:03:18 (CET)] <totte>	Sign-offs?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:03:55 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	That's it
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:03:56 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	That is what I can do
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:04:33 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Any other suggestions and comments are welcome
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:04:33 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	of course
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:05:26 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Sign-offs, yes. Good idea
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:05:27 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Make them mandatory and official
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:07:20 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Any other suggestions?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:08:21 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Or you can make them at a later date....
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:08:24 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	It si getting kinda late, maybe move on to the last item?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:08:40 (CET)] <totte>	Yes, moving on would perhaps be wise.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:09:10 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Ok
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:09:22 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	This task: https://phabricator.kde.org/T10034
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:09:36 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Has attracted A LOT of attention
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:10:19 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	And we have now several subtasks and comments that will help us move fowards
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:11:31 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	The task is directly related to the goal of absorbing indenpendent projects, borg-like
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:11:32 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	as a way to grow our community
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:12:34 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	is @GB_2 around?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:12:57 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Ah yes, on Telegram
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:13:09 (CET)] <IrcsomeBot1>	<GB_2> Yes
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:13:25 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Can you telll us about the poll, please?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:13:44 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	I haven't looked at ot today?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:13:44 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Sorry for interupting you here, just got an idea for the prev item
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:13:57 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Go ahead
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:14:14 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	You've mentioned sign-offs for the posts on the Dot, right?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:14:21 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Ilya Bizyaev: Go ahead
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:14:28 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Well, we already do that
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:14:32 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Should help transparency indeed
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:15:02 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	I was thinking of sign offs for the texts on which the articles are based on
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:15:09 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	But, proceed please
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:15:11 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Is e.V./sysadmin membership a secret?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:15:20 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	No
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:15:39 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	May I ask you for a similar item then: whenever you want to say: "We were told", could you instead say: "Lidia asked me?"
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:15:40 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	But the sysadmin should not have a say in what gets published on the dot
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:16:02 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	I am not ready to point fingers, sorry
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:16:10 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	It would inspire more trust in who is begind particular decisions
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:16:14 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	*behind
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:16:45 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	I am ready to take on measures to make sure that these things don't happen on our level
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:16:45 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	And this is not pointing fingers; this should not be a secret in the first place.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:17:04 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	They will, they are guaranteed to happen as of now
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:17:05 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Let me give you a real case
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:17:09 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We were given a donation
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:17:12 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	A big donation
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:17:36 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We wer told by the donor we could not announce it until the money was in the bank
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:17:45 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Don't want to dive deep into the "told you" thing again, but I'm almost sure inviting 2 more people to a secret process won't help ;)
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:18:13 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We were told that any leak, they would cancel the donation
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:18:31 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	They said the names of the people who made the donation was to remain confidential
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:18:51 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	And they had the final say in the text we were to put out
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:19:00 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Now what do I do?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:19:12 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	It was nothing controversial
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:19:38 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Let me use totte's comparison of your LTG to "mow the lawn"
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:19:42 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	But it would still avoid me form telling you about who ordered what, no?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:20:19 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Same goes for "transfer money" and "create Matrix homeserver infrastructure"
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:21:24 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	One thing is an external partner and the other is relationships inside KDE; with important public consequences, as we see.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:22:11 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	There was an extrenal party with the Matrix thing
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:22:11 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Matrix
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:22:13 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	They have sponsors
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:22:38 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	They didn't want the news to come out before time, they didn't wnat leaks
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:22:53 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Because the system was live waaaay before we announced it
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:22:54 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	But it was not ready
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:23:11 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	(up to the announcement time, btw)
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:23:51 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	They did not a bunch of redditors coming in, finding all the flaws and then going an criticising it publicly
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:23:55 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Tweeting aside, firefighting was not right
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:23:59 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	That could, and should, have been avoided.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:24:18 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Making ther sponsors have second thoughts about sponsoring them
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:24:55 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	<ilya_b[m] "Tweeting aside, firefighting was"> We agree on that
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:24:56 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	I might not change your opinion about this, but neither am I aiming to
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:25:12 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	<ilya_b[m] "Tweeting aside, firefighting was"> And that is what we are doing here
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:25:26 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	I just want it to be clear at all times who is behind a particular decision
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:25:31 (CET)] <isadora[m]>	I think you might be looking at the issue somewhat misguidedly. We can't be open and transparent about things that we don't have the final say over. That would be considered breaching the deal, and would make us look professional. And if you want to include more people in the process, then you have the problem of who gets to be included, like what's the criteria, can any member of Promo be included in this "secret"
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:25:32 (CET)] <isadora[m]>	stuff as you call it, or just some particular people
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:25:34 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	You can't be
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:25:44 (CET)] <isadora[m]>	*would make us look unprofessional
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:26:03 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Is Matrix transition secret as of now?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:26:25 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	It was confidential, yes
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:26:31 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	was != is
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:26:33 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Not that it was going to heppen
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:26:49 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	But when exactly
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:27:18 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Because, as I say, the service was up and running before it was made public
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:27:38 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	But it was in testing mode
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:27:46 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	or debug mode
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:27:52 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	or whatecer
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:28:00 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	No, it is not. So I do not see the point in referring to mystical "higher-ups", as Jonathan sometimes calls them. This is flawed, this is not something we should ever do
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:28:31 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	What "is not", Ilya Bizyaev ?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:28:43 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	It is not secret *now*
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:28:55 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Correct
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:28:55 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	It is not a secret
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:28:57 (CET)] <isadora[m]>	I think this is a discussion best left for the Promo sprint, maybe. The meeting is running over its expected time, and some people might want to participate in this also, but they're not here now
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:29:16 (CET)] <totte>	Yeah, better discussed in person.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:29:16 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	I won't be able to attend the sprint, unfortunately
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:29:51 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Judging by the current discussion, I feel nothing will change about this issue at the sprint
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:29:55 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	But, if your question is why don't I open up about who asked for what
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:30:08 (CET)] <isadora[m]>	Not even remotely? We could organize that, like have a video call for people to join if they can't make it
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:30:32 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	I am ok to stop now, I knew my argument here is pointless, and I'm ok with eating the "told you" again :)
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:31:00 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	May-June are exam period, so very unlikely
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:31:11 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Agh
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:31:11 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Pity
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:31:16 (CET)] <isadora[m]>	😕
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:31:20 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We could'ce argue live
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:31:28 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We could've argued live
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:31:42 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	😉
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:31:45 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Is there a point in postponing this argument?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:31:58 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	As in, my opinion here is consistent
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:32:02 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Yes, it is getting late and I am hungry
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:32:10 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	And I expect this to happen n times more before May
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:32:30 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	<ilya_b[m] "And I expect this to happen n ti"> I don't think so
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:32:38 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	This is a very rare thing
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:32:46 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Well, it was worst
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:32:55 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	And usually imposed by the outside party
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:32:57 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	"As I said" (sorry)
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:33:17 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	It is not people here, in the community, asking for this
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:33:49 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Never
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:33:50 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	There is no Cabal, FWIW
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:34:35 (CET)] Join	Riddelll ([email protected]) has joined this channel.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:34:40 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Just outside parties that need confidentiality from time to time
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:34:40 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Nice
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:35:07 (CET)] <Riddelll>	ooh ooh I've an item, can we re-confirm we want to get rid of the social-media@ mailing list
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:35:46 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	So, parking this to be discussed at another moment
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:36:06 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	@GB_2, the floor is yours
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:36:14 (CET)] 	 * Riddelll steps back
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:36:27 (CET)] <IrcsomeBot1>	<GB_2> So the poll was about which projects we should approach first, to incorporate them into our community. These are the results:
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:36:41 (CET)] <IrcsomeBot1>	<GB_2> (Document) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/IIeMTw8t/file_13825.png
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:36:53 (CET)] <IrcsomeBot1>	<GB_2> OBS Studio was popular, but I think it will be hard to convince them to join us.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:36:59 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Can we discuss that another time, even outside the meeting, Riddelll ?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:37:05 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We are running way late as it is
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:37:22 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Let's talk about it over the weekend, ok?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:37:25 (CET)] <totte>	I second that motion.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:37:32 (CET)] <Riddelll>	sure
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:38:20 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	17 votes... that is not as representative as I had hoped for
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:38:21 (CET)] <totte>	17 voters.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:38:29 (CET)] <IrcsomeBot1>	<GB_2> Yeah...
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:38:42 (CET)] <totte>	Maybe let people rank choices instead of only pick a single?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:39:06 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	But, okay, it gives us an idea: people want to absorb stuff that is already popular
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:39:19 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Good idea about the ranking
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:39:20 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Also
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:39:28 (CET)] <IrcsomeBot1>	<veggero> I'm sorry, is there a reason for choosing just a few? Isn't it possible to make the proposal to all projects?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:39:38 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Aopen it up to more people
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:39:42 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Maybe post about it in Community mailing list
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:40:05 (CET)] <IrcsomeBot1>	<GB_2> These were the suggestions from the task
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:40:18 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We are not actually picking
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:40:18 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	we are trying to see what our community would like to do
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:41:11 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	In the comments I mentioned that the more popular software (like OBS) would probably be the most difficult to convince
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:41:36 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	So it may be an idea to approadh more niche, and smaller projects to... err
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:41:48 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Get experience convincing
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:41:58 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	I suppose
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:42:34 (CET)] <totte>	Yes.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:43:05 (CET)] <totte>	It's far easier to assimilate something that hasn't already grown stable and used to doing things a certain way.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:43:20 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Exactly
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:44:01 (CET)] <totte>	So this poll shows what the community would like (although I hope that KDE isn't down to 17 people), but don't consider the outcome binding or realistic.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:44:08 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Are we considering GitLab transition as a prerequisite for our absorbing quests?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:44:22 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We want to have a several reasons to approach a project that "the KDE community wants that project" is just one of them
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:44:35 (CET)] Quit	Riddelll ([email protected]) has left this server (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:45:28 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	This would be ideal, but we have to figure out what we can offer them before imposing conditions
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:45:48 (CET)] <totte>	No such condition on https://community.kde.org/Incubator.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:46:05 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	"Setting requirements" would be like step 5 or 6
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:46:22 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We are on step 1 and a half now
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:46:25 (CET)] <totte>	Yeah, let's just have a cup of coffee first.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:46:47 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	As in "we know KDE community is interested in this approach"
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:47:28 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	And we have a list of ideas
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:48:18 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	As it both things, that KDE community likes it, and it helps move us towards a goal, conflate, we must move forward with it
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:49:04 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	bro666: if "imposing conditions" was an answer to me, I didn't mean that
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:49:22 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Sorry, Ilya Bizyaev  Maybe you could run up a list of things that would help with a successful 
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:49:27 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	onboarding
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:49:30 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Is GitLab transition a prerequisite for our task?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:49:52 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	i guess it depends
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:49:56 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	On the stakes
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:50:03 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Say we convince VLC
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:50:21 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Are we able to actually invite any project now and say "feel yourself at home, but the home will change in a month"?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:50:25 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	VLC will now be under KDE's brand
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:50:36 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	But they still want to develop their way
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:50:59 (CET)] <totte>	It would be a wise move to wait until the choice between Phabricator and GitLab has been made.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:51:00 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	which, if I understand it right, involves sending patches by email (?!)
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:51:13 (CET)] <totte>	Nah they switched to GitLab.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:51:16 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Shall we shuit the door to that?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:51:56 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Or is it worth getting them in and working on them to slowly erode them down to doing things our way?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:51:59 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	No, Eike said they already use GitLab
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:52:17 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Which, to me, means it makes no sense for us to invite them now
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:52:18 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Well, it is an hypothetical
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:52:31 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Ilya Bizyaev: focus
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:52:35 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Same for my question (we haven't invited anyone yet)
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:52:36 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Not VLC then
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:52:42 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Project XYZ
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:52:53 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	That is immensely popular too
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:53:10 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	But send patches by courier pidgeon
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:53:44 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	<ilya_b[m] "Same for my question (we haven't"> We have not
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:54:13 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	So, maybe work in parallel on that aspect, Ilya Bizyaev 
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:54:19 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	What benefits can we offer until we can offer a stable infrastructure solution?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:54:21 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Draw up the requisites
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:54:35 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	That is step 2
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:54:35 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Lsiting the advantages
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:54:47 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	it is part of the project
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:54:55 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	What's step 1?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:55:07 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Deciding on the list?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:55:18 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	W/o priorities?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:56:04 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Step 1 is checking if this is a good idea with the rest of the community
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:56:14 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We can only do so much
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:56:17 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Ok, so just a list then
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:56:19 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Ok
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:56:30 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	https://phabricator.kde.org/T10577
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:56:47 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	This is where we brainstorm advantages
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:56:54 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Have it, yes
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:57:03 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	(step 2)
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:57:13 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Carl is tryin to say something
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:57:29 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Brainstormed: https://community.kde.org/Incubator
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:57:49 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Don't worry about that
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:57:52 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	at the moment
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:58:16 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	everybody is going ot be doing their thing
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:59:07 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	First we have to convince projects that the advantages of joining KDE outweigh the disadvantages of having to change some things
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:59:10 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Which is a given
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:59:29 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	That they will have to change some things, I mean
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:59:41 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	So first we have to prepare our case
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [20:59:45 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Hence, https://phabricator.kde.org/T10577
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:00:23 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	That doesn't mean we don't research what they do
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:00:24 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	now
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:00:24 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	That is all good work
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:00:25 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	bro666: what are you expecting to add to that task?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:00:48 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We need to know where we will find resistance
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:00:49 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Several things subtasks
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:01:12 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Oh gosh
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:01:51 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	2: List of advantages we can offer
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:01:52 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	3: A list of projects we should approach first
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:02:17 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	4: List of requirements (or things they may have to change) to integrate well into our framework
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:02:35 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	2: cannot we just copy it and have 1 task less?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:02:36 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	3: depends on my GitLab question
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:03:25 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	4: see same page
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:03:26 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	3 will depend on more than that
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:03:26 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	That is one thing
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:03:45 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	2 We could, or we could break the project into small manageable bits
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:05:14 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Which can be worked on independently by different people
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:05:14 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	A manageable amount of manageable bits?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:05:46 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Cause this is getting to hard to track, and we haven't even started
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:06:09 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	*too
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:06:26 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	How dare you
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:06:27 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	😆
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:06:27 (CET)] <totte>	Yeah I agree with ilya_b[m], why not stop at getting candidates? https://community.kde.org/Incubator/Incubation_Process#Candidate
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:06:46 (CET)] <totte>	I mean, do you intend for Promo to also sponsor them?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:06:59 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Your meta meta tasks are dangerous
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:07:00 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Noooo
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:07:27 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Sorry to say, I rarely get to chance to read through 1/2 of them'
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:07:31 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Promo and communication, remember
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:07:32 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We are both
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:07:33 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	We are promoting KDE to the projects
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:07:50 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	and helping to communicate with whoever is going to do the onboarding
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:07:55 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	(whuch would be the onboarding team)
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:08:01 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	(of course)
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:08:17 (CET)] <totte>	So help them become candidates, and then simply hand them over to onboarding. Right?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:08:24 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Once that link is established, we are done
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:08:46 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	yes
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:08:59 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Is someone tracking incubation?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:09:14 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	W/o 100500 tasks preferred
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:09:26 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	I think that is a question for Jonathan Riddell 
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:09:51 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Seeing Latte Dock in that list is at least unexpected
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:10:00 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	I saw him talking about this topic with the people at Atelier
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:10:01 (CET)] <totte>	I think I reached out to Thomas Pfeiffer about a candidate for Incubation, way back.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:10:16 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	I've personally been confident it's a KDE project for a while
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:10:34 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Ok, it is getting kinda late...
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:10:43 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	talking about splitting or not the tasks
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:10:48 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	How about this
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:11:39 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Leave the tasks as they are for the moment, any new tasks get discused in the main task, and if it is imperative it be split into a subtask, we do that
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:11:53 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	But only if it is imperative
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:11:53 (CET)] <Riddell>	I reviewed KDE review today
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:11:56 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Ah! Jonathan is here
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:12:08 (CET)] <Riddell>	I've not reviewed incubation for a while dunno what's in there
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:12:26 (CET)] <Riddell>	I can take a look
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:12:39 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	But there are people who do that, so that answers that question
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:12:54 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Are there? :)
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:13:09 (CET)] <totte>	Alright. Is the meeting about to be wrapped up? Gavel time?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:13:22 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	You just ask invoke Jonathan
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:13:49 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	👻
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:14:17 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Should incubation be tracked by the onboarding team?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:14:40 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	Jonathan does lots of stuff, it would be very difficult for him to keep an eye on all these projects
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:14:41 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	I... guess
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:14:58 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	You can ask
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:15:33 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Yep
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:15:33 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	2nd prereq. then
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:15:34 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	meeting adjourned
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:16:14 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Ilya Bizyaev:  would say you have given yourself two jobs: 1.- List of requisites 2.- Interfacing with the onboarding team
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:16:49 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	I will post the logs shortly
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:16:50 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	To the mailing list
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:17:11 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	1. I mentioned both, the rest are your existing task
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:17:12 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Thank you everybody!
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:18:23 (CET)] <Riddell>	ilya_b incubation and kdereview seems to have nobody taking much responsibility so yeah if onboarding team are interested in keeping an eye on them great
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:18:23 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	2. I'll ask them
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:18:24 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	<ilya_b[m] "1. I mentioned both, the rest ar"> I think there will be more requisites than two. I would barinstomr with others to come up with a complete list
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:18:24 (CET)] <ilya_b[m]>	👍
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:18:47 (CET)] <totte>	I'd say prepare a "flyer" or "brochure" listing all the great things about KDE and why existing, independent projects should join the Incubator thing. Then prepare the Incubator committee (referred to in https://community.kde.org/Incubator/Incubation_Process#Incubating) and sponsors (the onboarding group?). Then it's just a matter of cold calling.
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:18:48 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Maybe talk to people form Falkon
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:19:16 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	and what they had to change to integrate well
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:19:16 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	There may be requisites you are blind to
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:19:56 (CET)] <IrcsomeBot1>	<ilyaishere> Falkon hasn't really intergated deeply AFAIK
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:20:10 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Yeah
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:20:11 (CET)] <bro666[m]>	Pretty much
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:20:28 (CET)] <IrcsomeBot1>	<Bro6666> @ilyaishere, There you go
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:20:32 (CET)] <IrcsomeBot1>	<ilyaishere> And team is... 1-2 people
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:20:37 (CET)] <IrcsomeBot1>	<Bro6666> A good case study
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:20:55 (CET)] <IrcsomeBot1>	<Bro6666> Ask yourself (and them) why?
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:21:00 (CET)] <IrcsomeBot1>	<ilyaishere> Shows we're not ready to invite any projects, we have 7 stuck in "incubator"
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:21:16 (CET)] <IrcsomeBot1>	<ilyaishere> + Kaidan and Spectral waiting for Gitab
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:21:24 (CET)] <IrcsomeBot1>	<ilyaishere> *GitLab
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:21:37 (CET)] <IrcsomeBot1>	<Bro6666> We are not going to start inviting people tomorrow, @ilyaishere
[jueves, 7 de marzo de 2019] [21:21:43 (CET)] <IrcsomeBot1>	<Bro6666> "Long Term Goals"