Re: 2nd gen Io
Scott Solmonson <[email protected]> Sun, 9 Mar 2014 15:04:21 -0700
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.lang.io |
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--001a1134a45c51f85d04f433abf4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thx William- I'm bolting for lunch but will read right after- It's good to see TrustedExec models being taken direct to the silicon, and there's no reason it should be any different in the exact opposite direction- to objects only being able to execute with verification- from here to China, or Mars for that matter :) -SS -- NUNQUAM NON PARATUS =E2=98=A4 INCITATUS =C3=86TERNUS =E3=83=BD(=C2=B4=E2=97= =87=EF=BD=80)=E3=83=8E V/T: 00.1.408.718.6290 Skype: Scott Solmonson On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 6:45 PM, William Tanksley, Jr <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Intel is implementing something like this in one of their proposals for a > super-protected mode -- each distinct component is kept encrypted, and > parts are only decrypted as they're loaded into cache. > > The potential for abuse is phenomenal. But so's the potential for good. > > This is an excellent two-part article. > > http://theinvisiblethings.blogspot.com/2013/08/thoughts-on-intels-upcomin= g-software.html > > http://theinvisiblethings.blogspot.com/2013/09/thoughts-on-intels-upcomin= g-software.html > > -Wm > > > > On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 6:40 PM, William Tanksley, Jr < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Startup time might be manageable if the root instance seed signed an >> image containing a group of objects rather than one object at a time (th= e >> other objects would be signed too, but they would be marked as trusted d= ue >> to their inclusion). >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 11:51 PM, Scott Solmonson <[email protected]>wrot= e: >> >>> >>> >>> Why stop there? >>> >>> Why not sign every object from a root instance seed from the initial >>> Lobby? Startup time would be increased hilariously, but in the "reusabl= e >>> object" paradigm once they're up, they're up. And a chain of authorizat= ion >>> can then exist that effortlessly overflows across cores, systems, and >>> distance automagically. >>> >>> -SS >>> >>> -- >>> >>> NUNQUAM NON PARATUS =E2=98=A4 INCITATUS =C3=86TERNUS =E3=83=BD(=C2=B4= =E2=97=87=EF=BD=80)=E3=83=8E >>> >>> V/T: 00.1.408.718.6290 >>> >>> Skype: Scott Solmonson >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Steve Dekorte <[email protected]> wrote= : >>> >>>> >>>> I=E2=80=99d like to make the things that tend to be re-implemented in = typical >>>> projects part of the language - security, persistence, concurrency, >>>> distribution and user interaction. All of these could be seen as mappi= ng >>>> problems and their solution as adding explicit mapping boundaries. >>>> >>>> The first idea (which was probably already done in Smalltalk in 1980s) >>>> is to add a pointer to each object in the system to it=E2=80=99s =E2= =80=9Cowner=E2=80=9D and have >>>> object ownership domains where the domain leader is an actor/process w= hose >>>> execution thread is used for processing all messages sent to objects w= ithin >>>> it=E2=80=99s domain. Any object can become a domain of the objects bel= ow it in the >>>> ownership graph. Domain boundaries are used to solve the problems of >>>> security (tracking and verifying authority to invoke behaviors), >>>> concurrency (avoid unexpected state changes, closely associate executi= on >>>> with the state it will be working on), distribution and persistence >>>> (boundaries determine the state which needs to be persisted or moved). >>>> >>>> Part of the persistence component is to support the indexing and lazy >>>> loading of individual objects and standard representations that can be >>>> externally manipulated and returned and merged with an optimistic lock= ing >>>> mechanism. >>>> >>>> The user interaction part involves extending slots to have metadata an= d >>>> a standard set of properties which are used for the interface mapping. >>>> >>>> This would be a big project but hopefully there will be time in the >>>> future to take a stab at it. >>>> >>>> Sorry for the delay in responding, >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 6:06 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>>> > Come on Steve, there are Io fans who wanna hear about it! Let us cha= t. >>>> > >>>> > Selon Steve Dekorte <[email protected]>: >>>> >> >>>> >> On Feb 19, 2014, at 1:28 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>>> >>> Hi all, >>>> >>> >>>> >>> When there's no matching slot, the "forward" slot is activated. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I have this idea about a "before" slot: >>>> >>> >>>> >>> If "before" doesn't exist, everything works as usual. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> If "before" exists, it is always activated (and it receives the >>>> message) >>>> >> before >>>> >>> the slot lookup. Then, it produces a message (possibly the same) >>>> which will >>>> >> be >>>> >>> treated as usual. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> This could be used to test whether the sender as the "right" to >>>> access a >>>> >>> particular slot, for example. >>>> >> >>>> >> Hi Julien, >>>> >> >>>> >> I like the idea. On my list for a 2nd gen Io is some form of suppor= t >>>> for >>>> >> rights on all objects. >>>> >> >>>> >>> Is there already a way to do this at user level? >>>> >> >>>> >> You can get the same effect using a proxy to forward message to the >>>> real >>>> >> object. >>>> >> Io uses proxies for futures and supports turning all references of >>>> one object >>>> >> to another. >>>> >> >>>> >>> Also, would anybody have a little constructive criticism about Io? >>>> >> >>>> >> Always welcome! :) >>>> >> >>>> >> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Yahoo Groups Links >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > >=20 > --001a1134a45c51f85d04f433abf4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/htm= l4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> =20 <body style=3D"background-color: #fff;"> <span style=3D"display:none"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"position:relative;"> <div id=3D"ygrp-msg" style=3D"z-index: 1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-text" > =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 <p><div dir=3D"ltr">Thx William- I'm bolting for lunch but will r= ead right after-<div><br></div><div>It's good to see TrustedExec models= being taken direct to the silicon, and there's no reason it should be = any different in the exact opposite direction- to objects only being able t= o execute with verification- from here to China, or Mars for that matter :)= </div> <div><br></div><div>-SS</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"= all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"> <p>--</p><p>NUNQUAM NON PARATUS =E2=98=A4 INCITATUS =C3=86TERNUS =E3=83=BD(= =C2=B4=E2=97=87=EF=BD=80)=E3=83=8E</p><p>V/T: 00.1.408.718.6290</p><p>Skype= : Scott Solmonson</p></div></div> <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 6:45 PM, William = Tanksley, Jr <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquo= te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid;"> =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 <div> <br><br> <div dir=3D"ltr">Intel is implementing something like this in one of their = proposals for a super-protected mode -- each distinct component is kept enc= rypted, and parts are only decrypted as they're loaded into cache.<div> <br></div><div>The potential for abuse is phenomenal. But so's the pote= ntial for good.</div><div><br></div><div>This is an excellent two-part arti= cle.</div><div><a href=3D"http://theinvisiblethings.blogspot.com/2013/08/th= oughts-on-intels-upcoming-software.html" target=3D"_blank">http://theinvisi= blethings.blogspot.com/2013/08/thoughts-on-intels-upcoming-software.html</a= ><br> </div><div><a href=3D"http://theinvisiblethings.blogspot.com/2013/09/though= ts-on-intels-upcoming-software.html" target=3D"_blank">http://theinvisiblet= hings.blogspot.com/2013/09/thoughts-on-intels-upcoming-software.html</a><br= > </div><div><br> </div><div>-Wm</div><div><br></div></div><div><div class=3D"h5"><div class= =3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at = 6:40 PM, William Tanksley, Jr <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:wtank= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wr= ote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid;"><di= v dir=3D"ltr">Startup time might be manageable if the root instance seed si= gned an image containing a group of objects rather than one object at a tim= e (the other objects would be signed too, but they would be marked as trust= ed due to their inclusion).</div> <div><div> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 6= , 2014 at 11:51 PM, Scott Solmonson <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto= :[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrot= e:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid;"> =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 <div> <br><br> <div dir=3D"ltr">Why stop there?<div><br></div><div>Why not sign every obje= ct from a root instance seed from the initial Lobby? Startup time would be = increased hilariously, but in the "reusable object" paradigm once= they're up, they're up. And a chain of authorization can then exis= t that effortlessly overflows across cores, systems, and distance automagic= ally.</div> <div><br></div><div>-SS</div> </div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"> <p>--</p><p>NUNQUAM NON PARATUS =E2=98=A4 INCITATUS =C3=86TERNUS =E3=83=BD(= =C2=B4=E2=97=87=EF=BD=80)=E3=83=8E</p><p>V/T: 00.1.408.718.6290</p><p>Skype= : Scott Solmonson</p></div></div><div><div> <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Steve De= korte <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"= _blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gma= il_quote" style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid;"> <br> I=E2=80=99d like to make the things that tend to be re-implemented in typic= al projects part of the language - security, persistence, concurrency, dist= ribution and user interaction. All of these could be seen as mapping proble= ms and their solution as adding explicit mapping boundaries.<br> <br> The first idea (which was probably already done in Smalltalk in 1980s) is t= o add a pointer to each object in the system to it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cowner= =E2=80=9D and have object ownership domains where the domain leader is an a= ctor/process whose execution thread is used for processing all messages sen= t to objects within it=E2=80=99s domain. Any object can become a domain of = the objects below it in the ownership graph. Domain boundaries are used to = solve the problems of security (tracking and verifying authority to invoke = behaviors), concurrency (avoid unexpected state changes, closely associate = execution with the state it will be working on), distribution and persisten= ce (boundaries determine the state which needs to be persisted or moved).<b= r> <br> Part of the persistence component is to support the indexing and lazy loadi= ng of individual objects and standard representations that can be externall= y manipulated and returned and merged with an optimistic locking mechanism.= <br> <br> The user interaction part involves extending slots to have metadata and a s= tandard set of properties which are used for the interface mapping.<br> <br> This would be a big project but hopefully there will be time in the future = to take a stab at it.<br> <br> Sorry for the delay in responding,<br> Steve<br> <br> On Feb 24, 2014, at 6:06 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" targe= t=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a> wrote:<br> > Come on Steve, there are Io fans who wanna hear about it! Let us chat.= <br> ><br> > Selon Steve Dekorte <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D= "_blank">[email protected]</a>>:<br> >><br> >> On Feb 19, 2014, at 1:28 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:omenvironment@free.= fr" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a> wrote:<br> >>> Hi all,<br> >>><br> >>> When there's no matching slot, the "forward" slo= t is activated.<br> >>><br> >>> I have this idea about a "before" slot:<br> >>><br> >>> If "before" doesn't exist, everything works as u= sual.<br> >>><br> >>> If "before" exists, it is always activated (and it r= eceives the message)<br> >> before<br> >>> the slot lookup. Then, it produces a message (possibly the sam= e) which will<br> >> be<br> >>> treated as usual.<br> >>><br> >>> This could be used to test whether the sender as the "rig= ht" to access a<br> >>> particular slot, for example.<br> >><br> >> Hi Julien,<br> >><br> >> I like the idea. On my list for a 2nd gen Io is some form of suppo= rt for<br> >> rights on all objects.<br> >><br> >>> Is there already a way to do this at user level?<br> >><br> >> You can get the same effect using a proxy to forward message to th= e real<br> >> object.<br> >> Io uses proxies for futures and supports turning all references of= one object<br> >> to another.<br> >><br> >>> Also, would anybody have a little constructive criticism about= Io?<br> >><br> >> Always welcome! :)<br> >><br> >> Steve<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> ------------------------------------<br> <br> Yahoo Groups Links<br> <br> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iolanguage/" target= =3D"_blank">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iolanguage/</a><br> <br> <*> Your email settings:<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Email | Traditional<br> <br> <*> To change settings online go to:<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iolanguage/join" tar= get=3D"_blank">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iolanguage/join</a><br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (Yahoo! 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} #ygrp-mlmsg #logo { padding-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-msg p a { font-family: Verdana; } #ygrp-msg p#attach-count span { color: #1E66AE; font-weight: 700; } #ygrp-reco #reco-head { color: #ff7900; font-weight: 700; } #ygrp-reco { margin-bottom: 20px; padding: 0px; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a { font-size: 130%; text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li { font-size: 77%; list-style-type: square; padding: 6px 0; }=20 #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul { margin: 0; padding: 0 0 0 8px; } #ygrp-text { font-family: Georgia; } #ygrp-text p { margin: 0 0 1em 0; } #ygrp-text tt { font-size: 120%; } #ygrp-vital ul li:last-child { border-right: none !important;=20 }=20 --> </style> </head> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~--> </html> <!-- end group email --> --001a1134a45c51f85d04f433abf4--