RE: Collecting tests?

Well, I was thinking you *could* code/maintain some tests -- but even
more importantly, get a process going ( perhaps like Andreas just
described ) and once it gets going, keep it rolling!  

Squeak Needs Stewards!

-----Original Message-----
From: Marcus Denker [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 11:43 AM
To: Discussing the Squeak Foundation
Subject: Re: [Squeakfoundation]Collecting tests?

> Goran, how about adding a "Tests" category to SqueakMap?  Marcus, you 
> could be the Steward of that whole category.  

Yes, we should have a default-maintainer for all test-packages that
the package-maintainer him/herself don't want to manage... 

   Marcus

-- 
Marcus Denker [email protected]  -- Squeak! http://squeak.de

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 [DOCS] Constructive Development Process (was: re: release prioritization)
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Craig

Craig Latta <[email protected]> wrote:
> I think we do have a constructive process. 

You rise an important issue. I think this deserves attention.

Serge Stinckwich was suggesting on 17-Feb that we should think about the
development process. 

Serge Stinckwich <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> i just found that the Python community use something they called PEP (Python Enhancements Proposals).
> PEP are design documents describing new feature for Python. There is a workflow that deals whith how the PEPs are manage
> by the community.
> 
> Look at the PEP Purpose and Guidelines : http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0001.html
> and the index of PEP here : http://www.python.org/peps/
> 
> Maybe, we can build something like that for Squeak : Squeak Enhancements Proposals (SEP) ?
> in order to have a more rigourous development process.

Is it possible for you to do a short write-up of what you think when you
speak of a 
constructive process? Where do you see the pros and cons? How do you
think things
should change in the future?

A short write-up (bullet list) would already be  a great start. If you
come to the conclusion
that the term 'constructive process' is not well chosen you may change
it of course.

Perhaps there is already some material on this - then an update and
sending in the
pointers to the list is sufficient!

If you could work on this that would be great!

Regards
Hannes
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Daniel Vainsencher <[email protected]> writes:
> If we have bugs (and we have more than just those handful that were
> mentioned), the solution isn't to delay the release, it is to have SUnit
> tests, use them, and keep them green. Think longer term - it's not about
> making a perfect release - that'll always be a good excuse to delay a
> little more. It's about having many releases, at quite frequent,
> predictable intervals, that are getting better and better, and keeping
> production and development close. That'll give us long term properties
> that will keep Squeak getting better.

+1, well said.

I've found releasing on the first of every month to be a useful discipline.
What changes would be needed to make this practical for squeak, I wonder ?
Maybe none.

Thanks for your work, guides.
-Simon
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Yes, a place to collect random tests - I think it's a good idea. 
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On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 05:39:52PM +0100, Andreas Raab wrote:
> Add a place to Squeak where it's _really_ easy to write a single
> test without having to make a class first
> 

I like your thoughts.  How about a 'Test Pit' which is similar to a Workspace but allows you to write simple assertions about what you are testing.  I can imagine how it would work but don't know how to implement it... (except in Python).  Could you bind a subset of the methods of TestCase into the scope of the workspace so you could just write quick statements and then hit a button to do-it all and give you a quick result.  Or maybe you could have a global QuickTest bound in the workspace which provided assert: deny: etc.  Then you could possibly hit a button to generate a proper class for you after asking you for the name.  If the text in the workspace only used the protocol of TestCase then it could just become the body of a test - you could neaten it up/ improve with the browser(s) later.

The only thing I'm not quite sure about is getting the objects in that you want to test if they already exist somewhere.  Maybe you could enable morph-workspace dropping, although I haven't played with that yet so I'm not exactly sure how that works.

Does this sound like what you had in mind?

If this was in the Tools flap then you could grab it out, write a test and then there could be suitable buttons for 'mail to list' etc.  

Mike 
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Hi Hannes--

> > > Not having a proper test culture in Squeak leads us to have this
> > > kind of funny discussions.
> >
> >       Perhaps you could elaborate as to what you consider a proper
> > test culture.
> 
> An example of an emerging test culture
> 
> > "Brent Vukmer" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I installed the MetaClassBuilderFix SAR in a 3.4gamma image,
> > installed the ClassBuilder test suite,
> > and then ran the ClassBuilder test suite
> > -- 3 out of 3 tests passed.

	Indeed, but to what extent should particular tests delay a particular
release? I think that's the main issue here.


	thanks,

-C

--
Craig Latta
improvisational musical informaticist
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On Fri, 2003-02-28 at 17:56, Simon Michael wrote:
> +1, well said.
> 
seconded.

> I've found releasing on the first of every month to be a useful discipline.
> What changes would be needed to make this practical for squeak, I wonder ?
> Maybe none.
> 
Yup - we've taken to release an RC every Thursday at 13:30, and when no
showstoppers have been found by Friday 18:00, it is moved into
production. I think a similar time regime could put the necessary
pressure on the cooker to help here in cleaning up procedure (it surely
helped with us!).

Probably a quarterly regime would work fine. Announce a gamma release
one month before the end of the cycle (and fork there so development
continues), and make abundantly sure that whatever happens, it is going
to be the production version one month later. This shifts quite a bit of
the responsibility for testing back to where it belongs: the users
a.k.a. the Squeak community. 



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