Re: Question about Audio Buffer/Timing
Jeremy Landry <[email protected]> Sun, 18 Mar 2018 12:47:30 -0700
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.squeakland,gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general |
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| Message-ID | <CAMYa41mEd4m_n7sz+YeO4+_vZGgku30nufSbQXy=MO487so_zQ@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============5927835357240902333== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113ecc4cae1c950567b51c59" --001a113ecc4cae1c950567b51c59 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I haven't gotten the Evnvelope editor morph to work properly yet, but I'm sure it will when *I* stop being lame (so far, I've got a 0/2 record with squeak/etoys...so likely I'm doing something wrong here!) On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 9:29 AM, karl ramberg <[email protected]> wrote= : > I fixed so EnvelopeEditorMorph can open without giving a error in > http://source.squeak.org/trunk/MorphicExtras-kfr.225.mcz > > Best, > Karl > > On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 2:13 PM, karl ramberg <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hi, >> ScorePlayerMorph is the class that has best support for making music.( F= M >> synthesizer) >> >> Try this do it: >> | n score | n :=3D 3. >> score :=3D (MIDIScore new tracks: ((1 to: n) collect: [:i | Array new]); >> trackInfo: ((1 to: n) collect: [:i | 'Instrument' , i printString]); >> tempoMap: nil; ticksPerQuarterNote: 96). >> ScorePlayerMorph openOn: score title: 'empty score' >> >> In the opened ScorePlayerMorph click on PianoRoll. >> Right click on the opened PianoRollScore and select 'add keyboard' in th= e >> menu. >> When you click on the opened keyboard it records to the PianoRollScore >> >> You can select different instuments in the ScorePlayerMorph. >> Muting the different instruments in ScorePlayerMorph to add/edit the >> PianoRollScore=C2=A8 >> Clicking on 'oboe1' you get a meny to select different FM synth premade >> instruments. >> The bottom of that menu give you 'edit oboe1' >> >> Selecting this will give you a DNU because the image does not have class >> ScaleMorph anymore. >> It can be found in old images and filed out. There where some licensing >> issues and I think maybe the >> author passed away before the class could be re licensed. >> >> Anyway, enjoy :-) >> >> >> These tools funktion but have MANY rough edges and a lot can be done to >> improve them. >> >> Best, >> Karl >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 5:56 PM, Jeremy Landry <[email protected]> wrote= : >> >>> What can I do to make new music in Etoys, then? According to FLOSS >>> manual, there's nothing for recording...? The purpose of the sequencer= was >>> to generate new music...this is basically the goal here...and to do so >>> without using an a MIDI instrument (well, a physical one, anyway...a >>> simulated one is fine!) >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 2:27 AM, karl ramberg <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Etoys ticking is not precise enough to do music timing. >>>> Ticking might be offset by other task the system is doing. >>>> You should use the ScorePlayerMorph for music. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Karl >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 9:55 PM, Jeremy Landry <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Maybe clicking the sequencer squares to look like this will make more >>>>> sense when you play it back: >>>>> https://imgur.com/a/ZHsaS >>>>> >>>>> Setting the script to tick should be obvious what the problem is: not >>>>> only is the playback not timed at the same interval as the script >>>>> tick-rate, but it will 'skip' sometimes and omit playback. What you = should >>>>> hear is nonstop, fairly consistent drum smacks, like a drum roll. In= stead, >>>>> you'll hear it roll a little, stop quickly, then start rolling again,= stop >>>>> quickly, and almost at random. Does this help open up the problem? = It's >>>>> not really about music here, just about timing and consistency of >>>>> triggering sounds on a timer...sometimes they do sound off, sometimes= they >>>>> dont, sometimes they're in-time, sometimes they're not. If you speed= up >>>>> the ticks per second, you can hear that 'invisible metronome' I menti= oned >>>>> earlier, there seems to be an 'always running' object that only looks= for >>>>> new sounds to play at a regular interval, if the trigger doesn't make= that >>>>> window, then it gets dropped seemingly...it's like it's aliasing the >>>>> instructions or something... >>>>> >>>>> Hope this helps, and I appreciate you helping looking into it! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 12:03 PM, Bob Arning <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'm not enough of a musician to really know if it's behaving or not. >>>>>> These are drums, so it's not a continuous sound. When I set the scri= pt to >>>>>> ticking, I do hear an occasional glitch that my well be due to garba= ge >>>>>> collection -- it's possible that tweaking some gc parameters might r= educe >>>>>> this. Perhaps a youtube posting with the sound you are hearing would= let me >>>>>> compare it to what I'm hearing. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/22/18 2:33 PM, Jeremy Landry wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D_JlCCtHLHDk I forgot to post this = in >>>>>> the last message showing the more stable timing done with 'pure' squ= eak >>>>>> classes/methods. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Jeremy Landry <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nJlQ4huXcKZmTm6GADl40ZrWAEd >>>>>>> 7Kv97/view?usp=3Dsharing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is a demo of the problem for ETOYS 5 (along with some other >>>>>>> stuff there that shows what I've looked into, to some degree). Hit= ting >>>>>>> play on the scriptor, you will hear a sequence that has awful timin= g. I >>>>>>> don't expect 'sample perfect', zero latency or anything spectacular= , but it >>>>>>> would seem that if there's timers in the system, everything should = adhere >>>>>>> to it, or else not be called timers and something like, >>>>>>> 'when-we-get-around-to-its'. This video here demonstrates that Squ= eak, at >>>>>>> least, can do timing just fine and older versions have midi demos, = but >>>>>>> again, I'm using Etoys for a specific reason, so it's confusing me = as to >>>>>>> why the delays happen... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Both sequencers are mouse interactive and playing with the script >>>>>>> timer and setting blocks on/off can reveal this hidden metronome...= maybe >>>>>>> that IS the buffer? I'm not sure...what's most puzzling is that so= metimes >>>>>>> it will sound right, and sometimes it won't...even if it wasn't cor= rect, >>>>>>> I'd probably be okay if it was consistently incorrect because I can >>>>>>> actually work with consistency, so I guess if nothing else, that's = what I'm >>>>>>> trying to figure out how to get without making tile usage unavailab= le for a >>>>>>> sequencer built on etoys tiles... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for all the efforts so far...I did notice some changing in >>>>>>> the timing when I checked the preference there but also unchecked t= he >>>>>>> preference of stopSoundsWhenDone, just in case it was hiccuping by = shutting >>>>>>> down the sound stream then making a new one. It didn't help, but I= had >>>>>>> forgotten about these preferences. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 10:57 AM, Bob Arning <[email protected]= > >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There do seem to be some platform issues as to whether this will >>>>>>>> really work. Some things you could do: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - check the value of the Preference for #soundQuickStart -- make i= t >>>>>>>> true if not already >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - put some code into the SoundPlayer method to tell you if >>>>>>>> quickStart is being requested and if not honored, why >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2/22/18 1:22 PM, Jeremy Landry wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the crossover. I am subscribed, but generally shy away >>>>>>>> from posting there as it seems out of my league and my main intere= st is in >>>>>>>> Etoys since, well, again, leagues and all that. I know just enoug= h ST to >>>>>>>> break things, not build them! :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So using the code from this message from Bob Arning: >>>>>>>> *Bob Arning* arning315 at comcast.net >>>>>>>> <squeak-dev%40lists.squeakfoundation.org?Subject=3DRe%3A%20%5Bsque= ak-dev%5D%20%5Bsqueakland%5D%20Question%20about%20Audio%20Buffer/Timing&In-= Reply-To=3D%3C269cdd30-7c77-6cab-22aa-591eee543b21%40comcast.net%3E> >>>>>>>> *Thu Feb 22 15:49:07 UTC 2018* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Previous message: [squeak-dev] [squeakland] Question about >>>>>>>> Audio Buffer/Timing >>>>>>>> <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-Fe= bruary/197505.html> >>>>>>>> - Next message: [squeak-dev] [squeakland] Question about Audio >>>>>>>> Buffer/Timing >>>>>>>> <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-Fe= bruary/197509.html> >>>>>>>> - *Messages sorted by:* [ date ] >>>>>>>> <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-Fe= bruary/date.html#197508> >>>>>>>> [ thread ] >>>>>>>> <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-Fe= bruary/thread.html#197508> >>>>>>>> [ subject ] >>>>>>>> <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-Fe= bruary/subject.html#197508> >>>>>>>> [ author ] >>>>>>>> <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-Fe= bruary/author.html#197508> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> SoundPlayer class gives a clue: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> resumePlaying: aSound quickStart: quickStart >>>>>>>> "Start playing the given sound without resetting it; it will = resume >>>>>>>> playing from where it last stopped. If quickStart is true, then tr= y to >>>>>>>> start playing the given sound immediately." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just looking at it and taking a guess, it doesn't seem to be >>>>>>>> *quite* the thing I was looking for. I was thinking there's a met= hod/class >>>>>>>> variable with a value that could be changed to affect the system, = rather >>>>>>>> than 'poking in' every thing I want to play when I want to play it >>>>>>>> individually because the ultimate effect is that Etoys PLAYSOUND:S= OUND tile >>>>>>>> will work as normal and this seems that it would have to be used i= nstead of >>>>>>>> the tiles...I have no idea if this is possible, but I'll also dig = around >>>>>>>> the class browser in Etoys, maybe I'll stumble into something, but= so far, >>>>>>>> as I noted, I only found the sound-buffer and sample rates, not th= e imposed >>>>>>>> delay method that I remember reading about. I remember the reason= ing it >>>>>>>> was put in was to prevent accidental playing of sounds inside of a >>>>>>>> single-frame repeat-tile...i.e. a repeat tile with any value other= than 1 >>>>>>>> and inside of it having a playsound:sound tile would overload the = speakers >>>>>>>> and make nasty noises because so many things are playing on top of= each >>>>>>>> other. I actually WANT this. Based on how sound plays now, you ca= n hear an >>>>>>>> 'invisible' metronome that makes sure all sounds are separated and= equally >>>>>>>> spaced apart and in the case of repeat tiles, only seems to accept= the last >>>>>>>> sound as valid/playable. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the help so far! I'm not expecting a solution because = I >>>>>>>> don't know if one exists, but my thought is 'if it was done, it ca= n be >>>>>>>> undone'...and just looking at how to undo it! :p >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 9:59 AM, David T. Lewis < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There is some follow up discussion happening on the squeak-dev >>>>>>>>> list. I don't >>>>>>>>> know if it helps, but you can read the posts here if you are not >>>>>>>>> subscribed to >>>>>>>>> that list: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018- >>>>>>>>> February/197508.html >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 10:27:18AM -0500, David T. Lewis wrote: >>>>>>>>> > Hi Jeremy, >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > I am copying this to the squeak-dev list in case someone there >>>>>>>>> can offer >>>>>>>>> > some guidance. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Dave >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 02:44:21PM -0800, Jeremy Landry wrote: >>>>>>>>> > > Hi, I made a quick audio sequencer test in Etoys and found >>>>>>>>> that there's a >>>>>>>>> > > hidden 'timer' that limits the responsiveness of new sounds >>>>>>>>> that go into >>>>>>>>> > > the playback buffer (terminology isn't accurate, but hopefull= y >>>>>>>>> it makes >>>>>>>>> > > sense to people). >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > I found the sound buffer setting, but was wondering if there'= s >>>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>>> > > else that limits how fast new sounds get added to the playbac= k >>>>>>>>> stream? I >>>>>>>>> > > read somewhere (old-man-aphasia here) that some code was adde= d >>>>>>>>> to prevent >>>>>>>>> > > overloading the buffer so surely there's a snippet of code I >>>>>>>>> could add to a >>>>>>>>> > > project to reverse this, if it's what is causing the delay? >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > Thanks for any help finding the solution. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> > > squeakland mailing list >>>>>>>>> > > squeakland-bD51WKytQuId/fn+uklp/[email protected] >>>>>>>>> > > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> > squeakland mailing list >>>>>>>>> > squeakland-bD51WKytQuId/fn+uklp/[email protected] >>>>>>>>> > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> squeakland mailing listsqueakland-bD51WKytQuId/fn+uklp/[email protected]://lists= .squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> squeakland mailing list >>>>>>>> squeakland-bD51WKytQuId/fn+uklp/[email protected] >>>>>>>> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> squeakland mailing list >>>>> squeakland-bD51WKytQuId/fn+uklp/[email protected] >>>>> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > --001a113ecc4cae1c950567b51c59 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">I haven't gotten the Evnvelope editor morph to work pr= operly yet, but I'm sure it will when *I* stop being lame (so far, I= 9;ve got a 0/2 record with squeak/etoys...so likely I'm doing something= wrong here!)</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote= ">On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 9:29 AM, karl ramberg <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a hr= ef=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]= </a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin= :0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I= fixed so EnvelopeEditorMorph can open without giving a error in=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://source.squeak.org/trunk/MorphicExtras-kfr.225.mcz" rel=3D= "noreferrer" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:arial,sans-serif;fon= t-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-= caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-ind= ent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-= color:rgb(255,255,255)" target=3D"_blank">http://source.squeak.org/trunk<wb= r>/MorphicExtras-kfr.225.mcz</a> <div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Karl</div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><= div class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">= On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 2:13 PM, karl ramberg <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href= =3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</= a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0= 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,= <div>ScorePlayerMorph is the class that has best support for making music.(= FM synthesizer)</div><div><br></div><div>Try this do it:<br></div><div><di= v><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>| n score | n :=3D 3.</div><= div><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>score :=3D (MIDIScore new = tracks: ((1 to: n) collect: [:i | Array new]);</div><div><span style=3D"whi= te-space:pre-wrap"> </span>trackInfo: ((1 to: n) collect: [:i | 'Instr= ument' , i printString]);</div><div><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap= "> </span>tempoMap: nil; ticksPerQuarterNote: 96).</div><div><span style= =3D"white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>ScorePlayerMorph openOn: score title: = 9;empty score'</div></div><div><br></div><div>In the opened ScorePlayer= Morph click on PianoRoll.</div><div>Right click on the opened PianoRollScor= e and select 'add keyboard' in the menu.</div><div>When you click o= n the opened keyboard it records to the PianoRollScore</div><div><br></div>= <div>You can select different instuments in the ScorePlayerMorph.</div><div= >Muting the different instruments in=C2=A0 <span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:s= mall;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:norm= al;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;t= ext-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb= (255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;f= loat:none;display:inline">ScorePlayerMorph</span> to add/edit=C2=A0 the PianoRollScore=C2=A8</div><div>Clicking on 'oboe= 1' you get a meny to select different FM synth premade instruments.</di= v><div>The bottom of that menu give you 'edit oboe1'</div><div><br>= </div><div>Selecting this will give you a DNU because the image does not ha= ve class ScaleMorph anymore.</div><div>It can be found in old images and fi= led out. There where some licensing issues and I think maybe the=C2=A0</div= ><div>author passed away before the class could be re licensed.=C2=A0</div>= <div><br></div><div>Anyway, enjoy :-)=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div><br></= div><div>These tools funktion but have MANY rough edges and a lot can be do= ne to improve them.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Karl</div><div= ><br></div></div><div class=3D"m_777010532917070739HOEnZb"><div class=3D"m_= 777010532917070739h5"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu= ote">On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 5:56 PM, Jeremy Landry <span dir=3D"ltr"><<= a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>= ></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0= 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">What = can I do to make new music in Etoys, then?=C2=A0 According to FLOSS manual,= there's nothing for recording...?=C2=A0 The purpose of the sequencer w= as to generate new music...this is basically the goal here...and to do so w= ithout using an a MIDI instrument (well, a physical one, anyway...a simulat= ed one is fine!)</div><div class=3D"m_777010532917070739m_13761572839085353= 02HOEnZb"><div class=3D"m_777010532917070739m_1376157283908535302h5"><div c= lass=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at= 2:27 AM, karl ramberg <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:karlramberg@= gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br= ><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1= px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Etoys ticking is not preci= se enough to do music timing.<div>Ticking might be offset by other task the= system is doing.<br><div>You should use the ScorePlayerMorph for music.</d= iv></div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Karl</div></div><div class=3D"= m_777010532917070739m_1376157283908535302m_6851049898053500012HOEnZb"><div = class=3D"m_777010532917070739m_1376157283908535302m_6851049898053500012h5">= <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 22, 2= 018 at 9:55 PM, Jeremy Landry <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:hakyo= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br>= <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Maybe clicking the seq= uencer squares to look like this will make more sense when you play it back= :=C2=A0</div><div><a href=3D"https://imgur.com/a/ZHsaS" target=3D"_blank">h= ttps://imgur.com/a/ZHsaS</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Setting the scrip= t to tick should be obvious what the problem is: not only is the playback n= ot timed at the same interval as the script tick-rate, but it will 'ski= p' sometimes and omit playback.=C2=A0 What you should hear is nonstop, = fairly consistent drum smacks, like a drum roll.=C2=A0 Instead, you'll = hear it roll a little, stop quickly, then start rolling again, stop quickly= , and almost at random.=C2=A0 Does this help open up the problem?=C2=A0 It&= #39;s not really about music here, just about timing and consistency of tri= ggering sounds on a timer...sometimes they do sound off, sometimes they don= t, sometimes they're in-time, sometimes they're not.=C2=A0 If you s= peed up the ticks per second, you can hear that 'invisible metronome= 9; I mentioned earlier, there seems to be an 'always running' objec= t that only looks for new sounds to play at a regular interval, if the trig= ger doesn't make that window, then it gets dropped seemingly...it's= like it's aliasing the instructions or something...</div><div><br></di= v><div>Hope this helps, and I appreciate you helping looking into it!=C2=A0= =C2=A0</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"m_777010532917070739m_137615= 7283908535302m_6851049898053500012m_6505211406727498863HOEnZb"><div class= =3D"m_777010532917070739m_1376157283908535302m_6851049898053500012m_6505211= 406727498863h5"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">O= n Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 12:03 PM, Bob Arning <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href= =3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</= a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0= 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> =20 =20 =20 <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"> <p><font face=3D"Georgia">I'm not enough of a musician to really kn= ow if it's behaving or not. These are drums, so it's not a continuous sound. When I set the script to ticking, I do hear an occasional glitch that my well be due to garbage collection -- it's possible that tweaking some gc parameters might reduce this. Perhaps a youtube posting with the sound you are hearing would let me compare it to what I'm hearing.</font><br> </p><div><div class=3D"m_777010532917070739m_1376157283908535302m_68510= 49898053500012m_6505211406727498863m_313355801356882249h5"> <br> <div class=3D"m_777010532917070739m_1376157283908535302m_68510498980535= 00012m_6505211406727498863m_313355801356882249m_-50921442851577088moz-cite-= prefix">On 2/22/18 2:33 PM, Jeremy Landry wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D_JlCCtH= LHDk" target=3D"_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?<wbr>v=3D_JlCCtHLHDk<= /a> I forgot to post this in the last message showing the more stable timing done with 'pure' squeak classes/methods.<br> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Jeremy Landry <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:hakyoku@gma= il.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord= er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nJ= lQ4huXcKZmTm6GADl40ZrWAEd7Kv97/view?usp=3Dsharing" target=3D"_blank">https:= //drive.google.com/file/<wbr>d/1nJlQ4huXcKZmTm6GADl40ZrWAEd<wbr>7Kv97/view?= usp=3Dsharing</a><br> <div><br> </div> <div>This is a demo of the problem for ETOYS 5 (along with some other stuff there that shows what I've looked into= , to some degree).=C2=A0 Hitting play on the scriptor, you wi= ll hear a sequence that has awful timing.=C2=A0 I don't ex= pect 'sample perfect', zero latency or anything spectacu= lar, but it would seem that if there's timers in the system, everything should adhere to it, or else not be called timers and something like, 'when-we-get-around-to-its&#= 39;.=C2=A0 This video here demonstrates that Squeak, at least, can do timing just fine and older versions have midi demos, but again, I'm using Etoys for a specific reason, so it's confusing me as to why the delays happen...</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Both sequencers are mouse interactive and playing with the script timer and setting blocks on/off can reveal this hidden metronome...maybe that IS the buffer?=C2=A0 I'm not sure...what's most puzzling i= s that sometimes it will sound right, and sometimes it won't...even if it wasn't correct, I'd probably= be okay if it was consistently incorrect because I can actually work with consistency, so I guess if nothing else, that's what I'm trying to figure out how to get wit= hout making tile usage unavailable for a sequencer built on etoys tiles...</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Thanks for all the efforts so far...I did notice some changing in the timing when I checked the preference there but also unchecked the preference of stopSoundsWhenDone, just in case it was hiccuping by shutting down the sound stream then making a new one.=C2=A0 It didn't help, but I had forgotten about these preferences.</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> </div> <div class=3D"m_777010532917070739m_1376157283908535302m_685104= 9898053500012m_6505211406727498863m_313355801356882249m_-50921442851577088H= OEnZb"> <div class=3D"m_777010532917070739m_1376157283908535302m_6851= 049898053500012m_6505211406727498863m_313355801356882249m_-5092144285157708= 8h5"> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 10:57 AM, Bob Arning <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></spa= n> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0= .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"> <p><font face=3D"Georgia">There do seem to be some platform issues as to whether this will really work. Some things you could do:</font></= p> <p><font face=3D"Georgia">- check the value of the Preference for #soundQuickStart -- make it true if not already</font></p> <p><font face=3D"Georgia">- put some code into the SoundPlayer method to tell you if quickStart is being requested and if not honored, why</fon= t><br> </p> <div> <div class=3D"m_777010532917070739m_1376157283908= 535302m_6851049898053500012m_6505211406727498863m_313355801356882249m_-5092= 1442851577088m_-1939768682591439961h5"> <br> <div class=3D"m_777010532917070739m_13761572839= 08535302m_6851049898053500012m_6505211406727498863m_313355801356882249m_-50= 921442851577088m_-1939768682591439961m_4959563591284099764moz-cite-prefix">= On 2/22/18 1:22 PM, Jeremy Landry wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks for the crossover.=C2= =A0 I am subscribed, but generally shy away from posting there as it seems out of my league and my main interest is in Etoys since, well, again, leagues and all that.=C2=A0 I know just enough ST to break things, not build them!=C2=A0 :) <div><br> </div> <div>So using the code from this message from Bob Arning:</div> <div> <b>Bob Arning</b><span><span>=C2=A0</= span></span><a href=3D"mailto:squeak-dev%40lists.squeakfoundation.org?Subje= ct=3DRe%3A%20%5Bsqueak-dev%5D%20%5Bsqueakland%5D%20Question%20about%20Audio= %20Buffer/Timing&In-Reply-To=3D%3C269cdd30-7c77-6cab-22aa-591eee543b21%= 40comcast.net%3E" title=3D"[squeak-dev] [squeakland] Question about Audio Buffer/Timing" tar= get=3D"_blank">arning315 at comcast.net<span>=C2=A0</span></a><br> <i>Thu Feb 22 15:49:07 UTC 2018</i><span>= </span> <ul> <li>Previous message:<span>=C2=A0</span= ><a href=3D"http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-Feb= ruary/197505.html" target=3D"_blank">[squeak-dev] [squeakland] Question about Audio Buffer/Timing</a></li> <li>Next message:<span>=C2=A0</span><a = href=3D"http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-Februar= y/197509.html" target=3D"_blank">[squeak-dev] [squeakland] Question about Audio Buffer/Timing</a></li> <li><b>Messages sorted by:</b><span>=C2= =A0</span><a href=3D"http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev= /2018-February/date.html#197508" target=3D"_blank">[ date ]</a><span>=C2=A0= </span><a href=3D"http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/20= 18-February/thread.html#197508" target=3D"_blank">[ thread ]</a><span>=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"= http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-February/subjec= t.html#197508" target=3D"_blank">[ subject ]</a><span>=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"= http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-February/author= .html#197508" target=3D"_blank">[ author ]</a></li> </ul> <hr> <pre style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style= :normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:= 400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:n= one;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-styl= e:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">SoundPlayer class gives a clue: resumePlaying: aSound quickStart: quickStart =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 "Start playing the given sound without resetting i= t; it will resume=20 playing from where it last stopped. If quickStart is true, then try to=20 start playing the given sound immediately." </pre> <br class=3D"m_777010532917070739m_137615= 7283908535302m_6851049898053500012m_6505211406727498863m_313355801356882249= m_-50921442851577088m_-1939768682591439961m_4959563591284099764gmail-Apple-= interchange-newline"> Just looking at it and taking a guess, it doesn't seem to be *quite* the thing I was looking for.=C2=A0 I was thinking there's a method/class variable with a value that could be changed to affect the system, rather than 'poking in' every thing I wa= nt to play when I want to play it individually because the ultimate effect is that Etoys PLAYSOUND:SOUND tile will work as normal and this seems that it would have to be used instead of the tiles...I have no idea if this is possible, but I'll also di= g around the class browser in Etoys, maybe I'll stumble into something, bu= t so far, as I noted, I only found the sound-buffer and sample rates, not the imposed delay method that I remember reading about.=C2=A0 I remember the reasoning it was put in was to prevent accidental playing of sounds inside of a single-frame repeat-tile...i.e. a repeat tile with any value other than 1 and inside of it having a playsound:sound tile would overload the speakers and make nasty noises because so many things are playing on top of each other. I actually WANT this.=C2=A0 Based on how sound plays now, you can hear an 'invisible' metro= nome that makes sure all sounds are separated and equally spaced apart and in the case of repeat tiles, only seems to accept the last sound as valid/playable.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Thanks for the help so far!=C2=A0 I= 9;m not expecting a solution because I don't know if one exists, but my thought is 'if it was done, it can be undone'...and just looking at how to undo it!=C2=A0 :p=C2=A0=C2=A0</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 9:59 AM, David T. Lewis <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">lewis= @mail.msen.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">There is some follow up discussion happening on the squeak-dev list. I don't<br> know if it helps, but you can read the posts here if you are not subscribed to<br> that list:<br> <br> <a href=3D"http://lists.squeakfoundatio= n.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-February/197508.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">http://lists.squeakfoundation.<wbr>org/pipermail/squeak-dev= /2018-<wbr>February/197508.html</a><br> <br> HTH,<br> Dave<br> <div class=3D"m_777010532917070739m_137= 6157283908535302m_6851049898053500012m_6505211406727498863m_313355801356882= 249m_-50921442851577088m_-1939768682591439961m_4959563591284099764HOEnZb"> <div class=3D"m_777010532917070739m_1= 376157283908535302m_6851049898053500012m_6505211406727498863m_3133558013568= 82249m_-50921442851577088m_-1939768682591439961m_4959563591284099764h5"><br= > On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 10:27:18AM -0500, David T. Lewis wrote:<br> > Hi Jeremy,<br> ><br> > I am copying this to the squeak-dev list in case someone there can offer<br> > some guidance.<br> ><br> > Dave<br> ><br> ><br> > On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 02:44:21PM -0800, Jeremy Landry wrote:<br> > > Hi, I made a quick audio sequencer test in Etoys and found that there's a<br> > > hidden 'timer' th= at limits the responsiveness of new sounds that go into<br> > > the playback buffer (terminology isn't accurate, bu= t hopefully it makes<br> > > sense to people).<br> > ><br> > > I found the sound buffer setting, but was wondering if there's something<= br> > > else that limits how fast new sounds get added to the playback stream? I<br> > > read somewhere (old-man-aphasia here) that some code was added to prevent<br> > > overloading the buffer so surely there's a snippet of code I could add to a<br> > > project to reverse this, if it's what is causing the delay?<br> > ><br> > > Thanks for any help finding the solution.<br> ><br> > > ______________________________<wbr>= _________________<br> > > squeakland mailing list<br> > > <a href=3D"mailto:squeakl= and-bD51WKytQuId/fn+uklp/[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">squeakland-bD51WKytQuId/fn+uklp/[email protected]<= wbr>g</a><br> > > <a href=3D"http://lists.s= queakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bl= ank">http://lists.squeakland.org/ma<wbr>ilman/listinfo/squeakland</a><br> ><br> > ______________________________<wbr>= _________________<br> > squeakland mailing list<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:squeakland@l= ists.squeakland.org" target=3D"_blank">squeakland-bD51WKytQuId/fn+uklp/[email protected]<wbr>g= </a><br> > <a href=3D"http://lists.squeak= land.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">= http://lists.squeakland.org/ma<wbr>ilman/listinfo/squeakland</a><br> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> <br> <fieldset class=3D"m_777010532917070739m_1376= 157283908535302m_6851049898053500012m_6505211406727498863m_3133558013568822= 49m_-50921442851577088m_-1939768682591439961m_4959563591284099764mimeAttach= mentHeader"></fieldset> <br> <pre>______________________________<wbr>_____= ____________ squeakland mailing list <a class=3D"m_777010532917070739m_1376157283908535302m_6851049898053500012m= _6505211406727498863m_313355801356882249m_-50921442851577088m_-193976868259= 1439961m_4959563591284099764moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:squeak= land-bD51WKytQuId/fn+uklp/[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">squeakland-bD51WKytQuId/fn+uklp/[email protected]= <wbr>g</a> <a class=3D"m_777010532917070739m_1376157283908535302m_6851049898053500012m= _6505211406727498863m_313355801356882249m_-50921442851577088m_-193976868259= 1439961m_4959563591284099764moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://lists.squ= eakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.squ= eakland.org/ma<wbr>ilman/listinfo/squeakland</a> </pre> </blockquote> <br> </div> </div> </div> <br> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<= br> squeakland mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:squeakland-bD51WKytQuId/fn+uklp/[email protected]" ta= rget=3D"_blank">squeakland-bD51WKytQuId/fn+uklp/[email protected]<wbr>g</a><br> <a href=3D"http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listin= fo/squeakland" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.squeakland= .org/ma<wbr>ilman/listinfo/squeakland</a><br> <br> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> </blockquote> <br> </div></div></div> </blockquote></div><br></div> </div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> squeakland mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:squeakland-bD51WKytQuId/fn+uklp/[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">squeak= land-bD51WKytQuId/fn+uklp/[email protected]<wbr>g</a><br> <a href=3D"http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland" rel=3D"= noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.squeakland.org/ma<wbr>ilman/list= info/squeakland</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br></div> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div> --001a113ecc4cae1c950567b51c59-- --===============5927835357240902333== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18Kc3F1ZWFrbGFu ZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKc3F1ZWFrbGFuZEBsaXN0cy5zcXVlYWtsYW5kLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vbGlz dHMuc3F1ZWFrbGFuZC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9zcXVlYWtsYW5kCg== --===============5927835357240902333==--