Re: (no subject)
Joe <[email protected]> Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:53:39 -0500
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.mobile.bitpim.user |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============4082777390226908252== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080408080005050704050005" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080408080005050704050005 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's pretty simple. "To" means "This email is addressed to you directly" and your email address is visible to anyone else who reads the email (including malware). "CC" means this email isn't addressed to you (so you don't need to respond, etc.), but it's something I think you should know about. It also lets everyone know you received it - the same as "To", so they don't forward another copy to you, etc.) This is often used on teams where you're talking with one person/group, but it may affect/interest others who need to know and who also need to know who else knows what's going on. If I update a procedure at work, I would send a note "To" my supervisor saying that it was done, I'd "CC" it to people who use that procedure so they know what to do and can't say they weren't told (and won't send copies of it to other people they think should know - because they can see those people were also CC'd on the email) and I might BCC a copy of it to my private email address for archival purposes. "BCC" serves the same purpose as CC, but each recipient cannot see any other email addresses on the BCC list. (They can still see all the addresses on the "To" and "CC" lists.) This allows sending information to a group without telling each recipient who else received it. It also gets rid of emails that contain a couple of lines of text, but that start with a page or more of To and cc addresses when you print them. It seems like a lost cause, but I often send people who misuse to or cc a boilerplate reply that explains the above and adds: "My giving you my email address does not constitute permission for you to give it out to other people." Joe On 11/18/2012 02:13 PM, Toby Fredrickson wrote: > To:, CC:, Bcc: > > Please tell us all the relationships and how this can help us all. > Some are savvy, but seeing it in a posting would be most welcome. > > Thanks. > > Toby > > On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Joe <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Spam is really annoying, but discussing it shouldn't be a reason > for us to be uncivil to each other. > > You bring up some valid points. It is undoubtedly harder to spam > a list like this by chance. Just for my own information, can you > refer me to some evidence that your assertions are true? > > I belong to a number of non-technical lists that just can't be > convinced to use BCC and once my address has unnecessarily gone > out to 30 or more recipients for each list, it's > vulnerability/availability goes up at least geometrically, if not > exponentially. > > I would suggest a single warning email to the account (requiring a > timely "human" reply) before banning it. People come to lists > like this for support and should not be banned lightly. > > Of course, all of this is up to the moderator who is the only one > who can take such an action. > > If he or she is good at reading email headers (I'm not), then a > simple address spoof could be detected. But, if the address is > spoofed, the list still gets it, so it's a problem even if it > isn't the poster's fault. Knowing that would at least allow the > moderator to send out a more polite banning message than "I don't > like you and I don't like your computer either." Or worse yet, no > message at all. > > 1) People don't usually let their computers send other people's > spam on purpose. Very often, they don't know it's happening. If > it's really a spam account, then there will almost certainly be no > reply to a warning. If they are informed, maybe they will correct > the problem. > > 2) I've seen spam using my email address and I run Linux, which, > although it isn't invulnerable to such things, almost never gets > "hacked" this way. > > In any case, "incompetent" people are not "bad" people and should > be treated politely, even though their incompetence may cause > situations like this that have to be addressed. > > Joe > > On 11/18/2012 09:50 AM, N4AOF wrote: >> Oh yes, it is always "someone else's" computer that "got hacked" >> -- BS on both counts -- the vast majority of these spam >> infestations come from the person either getting malware on their >> computer or from the person having given away their account >> information in response to phishing, fake sites, social >> engineering, or harvesting programs that offer to 'consolidate' >> all your mail accounts. >> >> The "someone else's computer" story CAN occasionally be true >> because some botnet malware does change the "from" address on the >> email (usually detectable in the headers) but that is rare >> overall and the odds are nearly astronomical in any closed mail >> list (like this one and Yahoo or Google Groups) because the >> changed "from" address would need to match someone on the >> subscriber list. >> >> Bottom line: When we see spam here, it almost certainly came from >> the account shown in the From address and usually the individual >> is far from blameless. >> >> In any case, regardless of who might be at fault, there is only >> one reasonable response for the manager of any mail list -- once >> an address is used to send spam to the group, the manager needs >> to remove and ban that account from the list to prevent its use >> for continued spamming of the list members. >> >> >> *From:* Joe <mailto:[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 18, 2012 03:37 AM >> *To:* [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> *Subject:* Re: [BitPim-user] (no subject) >> >> Most of the time, somebody else got their computer hacked and all >> the email addresses harvested and used without ever touching any >> of their computers. Teach people to use BCC instead of CC or TO >> for mailings so fewer addresses get unnecessarily propagated to >> vulnerable machines. >> >> On 11/17/2012 10:28 PM, Toby Fredrickson wrote: >>> That happened to my Daughter on my Comcast account. She >>> apparently switched over to "dookieprotect" (based on a fellow >>> "stoodent" claiming it was the best) or something like it as >>> malware protection and her box got zombied into a spam machine. >>> We got it fixed. Any reputable virus system should fix that. >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 7:01 PM, N4AOF <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> Another idiot who wants to claim his Yahoo account was >>> "hacked" because he can't explain why his computer is >>> sending out spam. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single >> web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, >> SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. >> Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BitPim-user mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> Unsubscribe or change options at >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitpim-user >> >> There are several hundred people on this list. Please be >> courteous, on topic and follow the instructions before posting >> http://www.bitpim.org/help/support.htm > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single > web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, > vmware, > SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. > Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov > _______________________________________________ > BitPim-user mailing list [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > Unsubscribe or change options at > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitpim-user > > There are several hundred people on this list. Please be > courteous, on topic and follow the instructions before posting > http://www.bitpim.org/help/support.htm > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single > web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, > SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. > Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov > > > _______________________________________________ > BitPim-user mailing list [email protected] > Unsubscribe or change options at > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitpim-user > > There are several hundred people on this list. Please be > courteous, on topic and follow the instructions before posting > http://www.bitpim.org/help/support.htm --------------080408080005050704050005 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">It's pretty simple.<br> "To" means "This email is addressed to you directly" and your email address is visible to anyone else who reads the email (including malware).<br> <br> "CC" means this email isn't addressed to you (so you don't need to respond, etc.), but it's something I think you should know about. It also lets everyone know you received it - the same as "To", so they don't forward another copy to you, etc.)<br> <br> This is often used on teams where you're talking with one person/group, but it may affect/interest others who need to know and who also need to know who else knows what's going on. If I update a procedure at work, I would send a note "To" my supervisor saying that it was done, I'd "CC" it to people who use that procedure so they know what to do and can't say they weren't told (and won't send copies of it to other people they think should know - because they can see those people were also CC'd on the email) and I might BCC a copy of it to my private email address for archival purposes.<br> <br> "BCC" serves the same purpose as CC, but each recipient cannot see any other email addresses on the BCC list. (They can still see all the addresses on the "To" and "CC" lists.) This allows sending information to a group without telling each recipient who else received it. It also gets rid of emails that contain a couple of lines of text, but that start with a page or more of To and cc addresses when you print them.<br> <br> It seems like a lost cause, but I often send people who misuse to or cc a boilerplate reply that explains the above and adds: "My giving you my email address does not constitute permission for you to give it out to other people."<br> <br> Joe<br> <br> On 11/18/2012 02:13 PM, Toby Fredrickson wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote cite="mid:CAJ0fme4w74sNA-3uoPS5nHm7ga=wBfO_xG-i2phtW0gbgnw=2A@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">To:, CC:, Bcc: <div><br> </div> <div>Please tell us all the relationships and how this can help us all. Some are savvy, but seeing it in a posting would be most welcome.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Thanks.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Toby<br> <br> <div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Joe <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <div>Spam is really annoying, but discussing it shouldn't be a reason for us to be uncivil to each other.<br> <br> You bring up some valid points. It is undoubtedly harder to spam a list like this by chance. Just for my own information, can you refer me to some evidence that your assertions are true?<br> <br> I belong to a number of non-technical lists that just can't be convinced to use BCC and once my address has unnecessarily gone out to 30 or more recipients for each list, it's vulnerability/availability goes up at least geometrically, if not exponentially.<br> <br> I would suggest a single warning email to the account (requiring a timely "human" reply) before banning it. People come to lists like this for support and should not be banned lightly.<br> <br> Of course, all of this is up to the moderator who is the only one who can take such an action.<br> <br> If he or she is good at reading email headers (I'm not), then a simple address spoof could be detected. But, if the address is spoofed, the list still gets it, so it's a problem even if it isn't the poster's fault. Knowing that would at least allow the moderator to send out a more polite banning message than "I don't like you and I don't like your computer either." Or worse yet, no message at all.<br> <br> 1) People don't usually let their computers send other people's spam on purpose. Very often, they don't know it's happening. If it's really a spam account, then there will almost certainly be no reply to a warning. If they are informed, maybe they will correct the problem.<br> <br> 2) I've seen spam using my email address and I run Linux, which, although it isn't invulnerable to such things, almost never gets "hacked" this way.<br> <br> In any case, "incompetent" people are not "bad" people and should be treated politely, even though their incompetence may cause situations like this that have to be addressed.<br> <br> Joe<br> <br> On 11/18/2012 09:50 AM, N4AOF wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div dir="ltr"> <div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Arial'"> <div>Oh yes, it is always “someone else’s” computer that “got hacked” -- BS on both counts – the vast majority of these spam infestations come from the person either getting malware on their computer or from the person having given away their account information in response to phishing, fake sites, social engineering, or harvesting programs that offer to ‘consolidate’ all your mail accounts.</div> <div> </div> <div>The “someone else’s computer” story CAN occasionally be true because some botnet malware does change the “from” address on the email (usually detectable in the headers) but that is rare overall and the odds are nearly astronomical in any closed mail list (like this one and Yahoo or Google Groups) because the changed “from” address would need to match someone on the subscriber list. </div> <div> </div> <div>Bottom line: When we see spam here, it almost certainly came from the account shown in the From address and usually the individual is far from blameless.</div> <div> </div> <div>In any case, regardless of who might be at fault, there is only one reasonable response for the manager of any mail list – once an address is used to send spam to the group, the manager needs to remove and ban that account from the list to prevent its use for continued spamming of the list members.</div> <div> </div> <div style="font-size:small;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Calibri';display:inline;font-weight:normal"> <div style="FONT:10pt tahoma"> <div> </div> <div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5"> <div><b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="[email protected]" href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">Joe</a> </div> <div><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 18, 2012 03:37 AM</div> <div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="[email protected]" href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a> </div> <div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [BitPim-user] (no subject)</div> </div> </div> <div> </div> </div> <div style="font-size:small;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Calibri';display:inline;font-weight:normal"> <div>Most of the time, somebody else got their computer hacked and all the email addresses harvested and used without ever touching any of their computers. Teach people to use BCC instead of CC or TO for mailings so fewer addresses get unnecessarily propagated to vulnerable machines.<br> <br> On 11/17/2012 10:28 PM, Toby Fredrickson wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite">That happened to my Daughter on my Comcast account. She apparently switched over to "dookieprotect" (based on a fellow "stoodent" claiming it was the best) or something like it as malware protection and her box got zombied into a spam machine. We got it fixed. Any reputable virus system should fix that.<br> <br> <div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 7:01 PM, N4AOF <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote"> <div dir="ltr"> <div dir="ltr"> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial';FONT-SIZE:10pt"> <div>Another idiot who wants to claim his Yahoo account was “hacked” because he can’t explain why his computer is sending out spam.</div> <div style="FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none"> <div style="FONT:10pt tahoma"> <div> </div> <div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5"> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </div> <br> <fieldset></fieldset> <br> <pre>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov" target="_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov</a></pre> <br> <fieldset></fieldset> <br> <pre>_______________________________________________ BitPim-user mailing list <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a> Unsubscribe or change options at <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitpim-user" target="_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitpim-user</a> There are several hundred people on this list. Please be courteous, on topic and follow the instructions before posting <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.bitpim.org/help/support.htm" target="_blank">http://www.bitpim.org/help/support.htm</a></pre> </blockquote> <br> </div> <br> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br> Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single<br> web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware,<br> SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial.<br> Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications!<br> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov" target="_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov</a><br> _______________________________________________<br> BitPim-user mailing list <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br> Unsubscribe or change options at<br> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitpim-user" target="_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitpim-user</a><br> <br> There are several hundred people on this list. Please be<br> courteous, on topic and follow the instructions before posting<br> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.bitpim.org/help/support.htm" target="_blank">http://www.bitpim.org/help/support.htm</a><br> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> <br> <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> <br> <pre wrap="">------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov">http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov</a></pre> <br> <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> <br> <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________ BitPim-user mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> Unsubscribe or change options at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitpim-user">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitpim-user</a> There are several hundred people on this list. Please be courteous, on topic and follow the instructions before posting <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.bitpim.org/help/support.htm">http://www.bitpim.org/help/support.htm</a></pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html> --------------080408080005050704050005-- --===============4082777390226908252== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov --===============4082777390226908252== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ BitPim-user mailing list [email protected] Unsubscribe or change options at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitpim-user There are several hundred people on this list. Please be courteous, on topic and follow the instructions before posting http://www.bitpim.org/help/support.htm --===============4082777390226908252==--