Re: (no subject)
Toby Fredrickson <[email protected]> Sun, 18 Nov 2012 11:13:47 -0800
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.mobile.bitpim.user |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAJ0fme4w74sNA-3uoPS5nHm7ga=wBfO_xG-i2phtW0gbgnw=2A@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============2395766910316612623== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec54b46e2e4248004cec9ccab --bcaec54b46e2e4248004cec9ccab Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To:, CC:, Bcc: Please tell us all the relationships and how this can help us all. Some are savvy, but seeing it in a posting would be most welcome. Thanks. Toby On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Joe <[email protected]> wrote: > Spam is really annoying, but discussing it shouldn't be a reason for us > to be uncivil to each other. > > You bring up some valid points. It is undoubtedly harder to spam a list > like this by chance. Just for my own information, can you refer me to so= me > evidence that your assertions are true? > > I belong to a number of non-technical lists that just can't be convinced > to use BCC and once my address has unnecessarily gone out to 30 or more > recipients for each list, it's vulnerability/availability goes up at leas= t > geometrically, if not exponentially. > > I would suggest a single warning email to the account (requiring a timely > "human" reply) before banning it. People come to lists like this for > support and should not be banned lightly. > > Of course, all of this is up to the moderator who is the only one who can > take such an action. > > If he or she is good at reading email headers (I'm not), then a simple > address spoof could be detected. But, if the address is spoofed, the lis= t > still gets it, so it's a problem even if it isn't the poster's fault. > Knowing that would at least allow the moderator to send out a more polite > banning message than "I don't like you and I don't like your computer > either." Or worse yet, no message at all. > > 1) People don't usually let their computers send other people's spam on > purpose. Very often, they don't know it's happening. If it's really a > spam account, then there will almost certainly be no reply to a warning. > If they are informed, maybe they will correct the problem. > > 2) I've seen spam using my email address and I run Linux, which, although > it isn't invulnerable to such things, almost never gets "hacked" this way= . > > In any case, "incompetent" people are not "bad" people and should be > treated politely, even though their incompetence may cause situations lik= e > this that have to be addressed. > > Joe > > On 11/18/2012 09:50 AM, N4AOF wrote: > > Oh yes, it is always =93someone else=92s=94 computer that =93got hacked= =94 -- BS > on both counts =96 the vast majority of these spam infestations come from= the > person either getting malware on their computer or from the person having > given away their account information in response to phishing, fake sites, > social engineering, or harvesting programs that offer to =91consolidate= =92 all > your mail accounts. > > The =93someone else=92s computer=94 story CAN occasionally be true becaus= e some > botnet malware does change the =93from=94 address on the email (usually > detectable in the headers) but that is rare overall and the odds are near= ly > astronomical in any closed mail list (like this one and Yahoo or Google > Groups) because the changed =93from=94 address would need to match someon= e on > the subscriber list. > > Bottom line: When we see spam here, it almost certainly came from the > account shown in the From address and usually the individual is far from > blameless. > > In any case, regardless of who might be at fault, there is only one > reasonable response for the manager of any mail list =96 once an address = is > used to send spam to the group, the manager needs to remove and ban that > account from the list to prevent its use for continued spamming of the li= st > members. > > > *From:* Joe <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Sunday, November 18, 2012 03:37 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [BitPim-user] (no subject) > > Most of the time, somebody else got their computer hacked and all the > email addresses harvested and used without ever touching any of their > computers. Teach people to use BCC instead of CC or TO for mailings so > fewer addresses get unnecessarily propagated to vulnerable machines. > > On 11/17/2012 10:28 PM, Toby Fredrickson wrote: > > That happened to my Daughter on my Comcast account. She apparently > switched over to "dookieprotect" (based on a fellow "stoodent" claiming i= t > was the best) or something like it as malware protection and her box got > zombied into a spam machine. We got it fixed. Any reputable virus system > should fix that. > > On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 7:01 PM, N4AOF <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Another idiot who wants to claim his Yahoo account was =93hacked=94 >> because he can=92t explain why his computer is sending out spam. >> >> >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- > Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single > web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, > SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. > Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications!http://p.sf.net/s= fu/zoho_dev2dev_nov > > > > _______________________________________________ > BitPim-user mailing list [email protected] > Unsubscribe or change options athttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listi= nfo/bitpim-user > > There are several hundred people on this list. Please be > courteous, on topic and follow the instructions before postinghttp://www.= bitpim.org/help/support.htm > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- > Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single > web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, > SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. > Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov > _______________________________________________ > BitPim-user mailing list [email protected] > Unsubscribe or change options at > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitpim-user > > There are several hundred people on this list. Please be > courteous, on topic and follow the instructions before posting > http://www.bitpim.org/help/support.htm > --bcaec54b46e2e4248004cec9ccab Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To:, CC:, =A0Bcc:=A0<div><br></div><div>Please tell us all the relationship= s and how this can help us all. Some are=A0savvy, =A0but seeing it in a pos= ting would be most welcome.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks.</div><div><br>= </div> <div>Toby<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 11:06 A= M, Joe <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target= =3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class= =3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd= ing-left:1ex"> =20 =20 =20 <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000"> <div>Spam is really annoying, but discussing it shouldn't be a reason for us to be uncivil to each other.<br> <br> You bring up some valid points.=A0 It is undoubtedly harder to spam a list like this by chance.=A0 Just for my own information, can you refer me to some evidence that your assertions are true?<br> <br> I belong to a number of non-technical lists that just can't be convinced to use BCC and once my address has unnecessarily gone out to 30 or more recipients for each list, it's vulnerability/availability goes up at least geometrically, if not exponentially.<br> <br> I would suggest a single warning email to the account (requiring a timely "human" reply) before banning it.=A0 People come to = lists like this for support and should not be banned lightly.<br> <br> Of course, all of this is up to the moderator who is the only one who can take such an action.<br> <br> If he or she is good at reading email headers (I'm not), then a simple address spoof could be detected.=A0 But, if the address is spoofed, the list still gets it, so it's a problem even if it isn't the poster's fault.=A0 Knowing that would at least allo= w the moderator to send out a more polite banning message than "I don&= #39;t like you and I don't like your computer either." Or worse ye= t, no message at all.<br> <br> 1) People don't usually let their computers send other people'= ;s spam on purpose.=A0 Very often, they don't know it's happenin= g.=A0 If it's really a spam account, then there will almost certainly be n= o reply to a warning.=A0 If they are informed, maybe they will correct the problem.<br> <br> 2) I've seen spam using my email address and I run Linux, which, although it isn't invulnerable to such things, almost never gets "hacked" this way.<br> <br> In any case, "incompetent" people are not "bad" p= eople and should be treated politely, even though their incompetence may cause situations like this that have to be addressed.<br> <br> Joe<br> <br> On 11/18/2012 09:50 AM, N4AOF wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> =20 <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:'Arial'"> <div>Oh yes, it is always =93someone else=92s=94 computer that = =93got hacked=94 --=A0 BS on both counts =96 the vast majority of thes= e spam infestations come from the person either getting malware on their computer or from the person having given away their account information in response to phishing, fake sites, social engineering, or harvesting programs that offer to =91consolidate=92 all your mail accounts.</div> <div>=A0</div> <div>The =93someone else=92s computer=94 story CAN occasionally b= e true because some botnet malware does change the =93from=94 address on the email (usually detectable in the headers) but that is rare overall and the odds are nearly astronomical in any closed mail list (like this one and Yahoo or Google Groups) because the changed =93from=94 address would need to match someone on the subscriber list.=A0 </div> <div>=A0</div> <div>Bottom line: When we see spam here, it almost certainly came from the account shown in the From address and usually the individual is far from blameless.</div> <div>=A0</div> <div>In any case, regardless of who might be at fault, there is only one reasonable response for the manager of any mail list =96 once an address is used to send spam to the group, the manager needs to remove and ban that account from the list to prevent its use for continued spamming of the list members.</div> <div>=A0</div> <div style=3D"font-size:small;font-style:normal;text-decoration:n= one;font-family:'Calibri';display:inline;font-weight:normal"> <div style=3D"FONT:10pt tahoma"> <div>=A0</div> <div style=3D"BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5"> <div><b>From:</b> <a title=3D"[email protected]" href=3D"m= ailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">Joe</a> </div> <div><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 18, 2012 03:37 AM</div> <div><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"[email protected]= et" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">bit= [email protected]</a> </div> <div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [BitPim-user] (no subject)</div> </div> </div> <div>=A0</div> </div> <div style=3D"font-size:small;font-style:normal;text-decoration:n= one;font-family:'Calibri';display:inline;font-weight:normal"> <div>Most of the time, somebody else got their computer hacked and all the email addresses harvested and used without ever touching any of their computers.=A0 Teach people to use BCC instead of CC or TO for mailings so fewer addresses get unnecessarily propagated to vulnerable machines.<br> <br> On 11/17/2012 10:28 PM, Toby Fredrickson wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite">That happened to my Daughter on my Co= mcast account. She apparently switched over to "dookieprotect&= quot; (based on a fellow "stoodent" claiming it was the b= est) or something like it as malware protection and her box got zombied into a spam machine. We got it fixed. Any reputable virus system should fix that.<br> <br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 7:01 PM, N4AOF <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= t" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px = 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'Arial';FONT-SIZE:1= 0pt"> <div>Another idiot who wants to claim his Yahoo account was =93hacked=94 because he can=92t expla= in why his computer is sending out spam.</div> <div style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT= -FAMILY:'Calibri';FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATIO= N:none"> <div style=3D"FONT:10pt tahoma"> <div>=A0</div> <div style=3D"BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">=A0</div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </div> <br> <fieldset></fieldset> <br> <pre>----------------------------------------------------------------= -------------- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! <a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov" target=3D"_blank">http://p= .sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov</a></pre> <br> <fieldset></fieldset> <br> <pre>_______________________________________________ BitPim-user mailing list <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= t" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a> Unsubscribe or change options at <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitpim-user" target= =3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitpim-user</a> There are several hundred people on this list. Please be courteous, on topic and follow the instructions before posting <a href=3D"http://www.bitpim.org/help/support.htm" target=3D"_blank">http:/= /www.bitpim.org/help/support.htm</a></pre> </blockquote> <br> </div> <br>-----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------<br> Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single<br> web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware,<br= > SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial.<br> Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications!<br> <a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov" target=3D"_blank">http://p= .sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov</a><br>_______________________________________= ________<br> BitPim-user mailing list <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= t">[email protected]</a><br> Unsubscribe or change options at<br> <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitpim-user" target= =3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitpim-user</a><br= > <br> There are several hundred people on this list. =A0Please be<br> courteous, on topic and follow the instructions before posting<br> <a href=3D"http://www.bitpim.org/help/support.htm" target=3D"_blank">http:/= /www.bitpim.org/help/support.htm</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div> --bcaec54b46e2e4248004cec9ccab-- --===============2395766910316612623== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov --===============2395766910316612623== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ BitPim-user mailing list [email protected] Unsubscribe or change options at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitpim-user There are several hundred people on this list. Please be courteous, on topic and follow the instructions before posting http://www.bitpim.org/help/support.htm --===============2395766910316612623==--