Re: Removing Firefox Version Number

On Aug 20, 12:20 am, Asa Dotzler <[email protected]> wrote:
> We have a current user base of about 450 million people all over the
> world. In the coming years, we intend to grow that to 1 billion people.
>   We cannot design Firefox to work perfectly "out of the box" for every
> possible users. We must design for the larges audience possible and then
> offer customization, including add-ons, to help those who are not happy
> with the defaults to configure a Firefox that works just right for them.

I bet a vast majority of those users don't take advantage of FF's
feature to block third-party cookies either.  So clearly it should be
removed and relegated to an add-on, right?  Same goes for the new anti-
tracking and FF Sync functions.


> > It sounds to me like you think a little too much of your own intellect
> > and a little too little of your users'.
>
> I think this discussion would probably result in better outcomes if we
> avoided personal attacks or insults.
>
> Let me try to address that statement, though. I think about 450 million
> users and how they interact with the Web through a web browser. That's
> my job. It's also the job of Mozilla's UX team -- a collection of
> experts in usability and design.  We do not think of users as dumb or
> incompetent or anything like that. We look at the challenges they face
> interacting with the Web and we design features and workflows that try
> to make their use of the Web as empowering and enjoyable as possible.

I'll make you a deal:  I'll refrain from "personal attacks" (really
just criticizing your attitude) if you refrain from personal ego
inflation by telling everyone what super talented experts you are.

Back on topic:  How does removing the version number from the About
dialog empower users?


> When we complete our remaining work on the update system, and we solve
> the remaining issues that block the ending of the old Firefox 3.6.x
> release, a regular user will always be on the latest release of Firefox.
>
> I realize that if you haven't been following Mozilla closely for the
> last 8 months or so, this might not have been obvious to you. With our
> new rapid release program, the vast majority of Firefox users will
> either be on the latest release, or are moments away from being on the
> latest release.
>
> That means that the moment that process per tab is available, you will
> either have it or be about to have it. If you open the About window, and
> it was available but you didn't have it yet, it will download and be
> installed and you'll have it.
>
> Do you have any questions about that? I'd be happy to try to answer.

Yes, I know we'll be able to see that we have the latest release --
Which is?  Let's say I'm a user and I know that FF version X is going
to have some killer feature that I really want to learn and use.
However, I have no clue when that release is going to be pushed out to
me.  Is it already installed?  Is Mozilla releasing it a little later
in the day?  Did they hit a snag and hold back the release for a
week?  For me, this would just be an inconvenience.  For users who
don't know where the version number has been hidden, I can see it
being a major source of frustration.  But who does it help?


> Add-ons that are compatible with the latest version of Firefox will be
> available from various add-on hosts on the Web including
> addons.mozilla.org, and will be available to you through the Add-ons
> Manager in Firefox. Add-ons that are not compatible with your latest
> version of Firefox may be available to experiment with.
>
> Add-ons that you already had installed which are compatible will be
> enabled in your latest version of Firefox and will just work. Add-ons
> which are not compatible with your latest version of Firefox will be
> disabled.

It sounds like users are going to see a lot of disabled add-ons and
wonder why they're disabled.  Especially the users who allegedly get
confused by version numbers.  I'm not an expert like you guys, but I
don't have a hard time envisioning User Bob saying:  "Huh?  It says,
'Not available for Firefox 6.0'.  Is that what I'm using?  I can't
find my version number anywhere."


> Your two use cases do not require any user knowledge of the Firefox
> version. Do you have other use cases you'd like to discuss?

Let's get the first two covered first.


> There are many great OS platform standards. There are even a few
> cross-platform standards. Where Mozilla usability folks think a standard
> OS feature is the best way to help a user accomplish a task or move
> through a workflow, we adopt those standards. Where we think the OS
> feature is a good tool but could be improved upon, we extend or modify
> that feature. When we don't believe that abiding by OS conventions are
> the best way to help our users, we try to come up with better ways.
>
> Let me give you an example that I think will help make this clear. Back
> in 2001 or so, most of us were on MS Windows. Windows provides an OS
> standard tool for moving between documents and application, called the
> Taskbar. It works quite well for a lot of things, but we noticed that
> more and more that our browser windows were sort of overwhelming the
> Windows Taskbar.  A volunteer in the Mozilla community created an
> extension that offered a very interesting non-standard mechanism for
> organizing browser windows called Tabbed Browsing. This wasn't at all
> like the native Taskbar and it wasn't even like the MDI interface that
> Windows offers in applications like Office. But tabbed browsing seemed
> really compelling to some of us and so we built it into Mozilla and then
> Firefox. This was a total violation of the OS standard on Windows, Mac,
> and Linux but we didn't let that stop us. There were plenty of people
> telling us we were crazy (really!) but we stuck to our guns and today
> it's one of the most popular features of every single browser.

In the above case you did not *remove* the standard behavior; you
*supplemented* it.  Users are still free to have as many FF windows
open as they like.


> Well, as I've said previously, I think that there is still a
> lot of value in the About dialog because people do open it to see if
> they're up to date. So, we can optimize for that by making sure that the
> up to date message is clear, simple, and credible. One effective way to
> make sure a message is likely to be understood is to remove things which
> are not core to the message -- to simplify. If our primary goal is to
> give the user confidence that she is on the latest version or in the
> process of being updated to the latest version, then the message in the
> About window should focus on that.

Hiding the version number does not make the dialog's message more
credible.  It makes it seem like it's... hiding something.


> I've offered the best answers I can. I think I've given far more than "a
> token explanation" here and elsewhere in this forum. Also, I don't think
> anyone at Mozilla thinks of our Firefox users as peasants. I think we
> all try very hard to put our process and our work into the public and to
> listen and respond to as much feedback and criticism as we can. I think
> Mozilla does this better than most other software projects and it's one
> of the reasons I've been contributing to Mozilla for the last 13 years.

The best answer you can offer is the one that pleases the most users
while displeasing the fewest.  This change has not even been released
yet, and thousands of your users spread across various communities are
up in arms.  Before this, were there thousands of users up in arms
about the version number being in the box?


> > Sadly, they seem to have forgotten that their greatest strength was that
> > they *weren't* just another Google or Microsoft.
>
> I certainly don't think that Mozilla is another Google or Microsoft?
> Those are giant multi-billion dollar corporations...

That's true.  They have money to fall back on when they make a mistake
that loses them market share.