RE: Summing up and moving on (I hope)

If the list degenerates into a bunch of business folks telling each
other why XP is bad, then I'm sure Ron, et al will set them straight. In
the mean time having the "business discussion" in the absence of the
details of a specific coding issue is useful for me. Someone posted
awhile ago a question of "can you have XP without talking about
programming?" Yes, we do it also most every day. Programming is but one
of our activity in the SOP. 

It's an important one no doubt, but for the business person it is one
handled by the developers and their management, several levels below our
discussion.

XC seems to be the place where these types of exchanges can take place.
What's needed now is more outsiders with business POV's to join.

Glen B. Alleman 
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Walton [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 12:54 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [XC] Summing up and moving on (I hope)
> 
> J. B. Rainsberger wrote:
> 
> > I fear that this list will degenerate into a bunch of
> > business folks telling each other why XP is so bad,
> > risky, ridiculous, whatever. I fear that they will
> > create yet another barrier between themselves and
> > the programmers, because as a programmer, I do
> > not feel welcome to bring my experience to this list.
> 
> Charlie Poole wrote:
> 
> > If you'll read JB's words carefully, you'll see that he
> > does _not_ say that he fears your intention. Rather
> > he fears that something will happen. It could happen
> > without your intending.
> >
> > With that clarification, and given that you're the list
> > moderator, what can you say to this concern?
> 
> Kent Beck wrote:
> 
> > XP is intended as an invitation to build social networks
> > between people with desires and people with possibilities.
> > Because it is extended from the possibilities side, folks
> > on the desire side have trouble seeing the invitation as it
> > was intended. That's what this list is about.
> 
> Hi J. B, Charlie, Kent, all;
> 
> I think these three quotes pretty much sum up my dilemna.
> 
> J. B. expressed a set of fears that I have a feeling are shared by
many
> here
> from the programming side.  Those fears are based, I presume, on years
of
> real experience.  I have a mirror set of fears, also based on years of
> experience.  My current fear, re: the discussion on this list, is that
> those
> mirroring fears will preclude us from effectively addressing the issue
> Kent
> so eloquently framed.
> 
> Charlie's implied question, please correct me if I misstate this
Charlie,
> is
> "what actions, as the list's owner, should I / could I take to provide
> assurance that J. B.'s expressed fears (and mine as well) don't become
a
> reality?"  That is an excellent question, and I don't as yet have an
> answer
> that I'm satisfied with.
> 
> >From what I understand, Kent introduced XP to deal with a situation a
> great
> deal like this, and it worked.  He didn't seperate the two groups, he
> brought them closer together and introduced a set of simple rules that
> allowed them to interact in a much more productive manner.  I welcome
your
> thoughts on the analogy to this list.
> 
> Best regards,
> Bill
> 
> 


------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Get 128 Bit SSL Encryption!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/CBxunD/vN2EAA/xGHJAA/NhFolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
extremecustomering-unsubscribe-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/