RE: Re: OT - poor word choice re: Managing Extreme Progr amming

Hi guys,

I'm going to respond to both posts at the same time...



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Hoover <[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 10:26 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [xpAdoption] Re: OT - poor word choice re: Managing Extreme
> Progr amming
> 
> 
> Great post George,
> 
> > Yes, my favorite such term is "resources" used to mean
> > "developers."  I have no problems when it's used at a high level 
> > such as "we don't have the resources to take on a new project 
> > without dropping something else."  Too often, however, I see it 
> > used in a much more personal and dehumanizing fashion such as "we 
> > need to allocate specific resources to specific tasks," or "I'm 
> > going to have a meeting with my resources."
> 
> This term is used by several managers in our company and it drives me 
> nuts.  Its dehumanizing effects silently demoralize developers each 
> time the term is used.
>  

I guess the key is to know where people's sensitities lie, and respect them.  If I were to address my current team as "you guys", I would be offending several of the women on the team, but not all of them.  A good manager and leader will learn more about her team and act accordingly.  Even so, if you are expecting a manager to disrespect you, you will be able to interpret anything they say in that light.


> > Steve Ropa may have been very lucky to "not know a single manager 
> > who doesn't have a ton of respect for engineers and what they do."  
> > Then, again, perhaps some of the managers I've known had such 
> > respect, but didn't communicate it.  Instead, they communicated 
> > entirely different things.  I would rather a manager treat me with 
> > respect.  Share their vision.  Listen to my concerns.  Engage in 
> > dialog.  I've seen far too many who treat developers as machines 
> > (and rather imperfect ones) that produce what they demand.
> 
I don't know if I've been so lucky.  I may be a bit of a Pollyanna, but I go into a situation assuming we are all professionals and accord each other a certain modicum of respect accordingly.  That can either be augmented or depleted based on actions.  This has served me well.

> Some of the managers I know that use the term "resources" when 
> referring to humans try to maintain an image of trust and respect 
> between themselves and the developers.  By using this term I believe 
> they expose their underlying view of developers as simply "deliverers 
> of value."

As a manager, I often refer to myself as "overhead".  People seem to enjoy that.  I would actually be quite flattered if someone once said "No, Steve, you are a deliverer of value".

> 
> > Perhaps much of encouraging XP adoption, in many situations, comes 
> > down to teaching mid and low level managers how to manage with such 
> > respect, how to lead rather than command.
> 
> Such an incredibly important distinction.
> 
> --Dave

Sorry if I keep shouting about this, but its a two way street.  The general trend on this and several other threads is one of extreme disrespect and sometimes hostility towards the mid and low level, not to mention upper level, managers.  The trend seems to be "those inadequate jerks don't respect me." Of course, I may be imagining it, but I don't think so.

As Ron pointed out last week, the "fifth value" of XP should be Respect.  I would phrase that as Mutual Respect.  

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