Re: [extremeprogramming] What has changed for you over the past 20 years?

Yep. Something similar to Scrum / Agile Alliance would but for engineering practices would be great. Make it attractive to be certified as a software developer.

> On Dec 4, 2019, at 3:14 PM, Avi Kessner <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Huh, this really got me thinking.
> Here is what I would like to see if I had millions of dollars and lots of influence.
> 
> The Continuous Coding Foundation, which functions like an open source foundation for Continuous Coding practices. 
> The foundation offers training and certification in graduated Continuous Coding practices.
> 
> Practices can belong to 1 of four levels. Abandoned, Sandbox, Incubation, and Graduated.
> 
> Examples of Abandoned practices, would be known antipatterns or projects which are found to have negative indicators when data is collected on them. For example, brittle tests.
> 
> An example of a sandbox practice would be Test && Commit || Revert. It's a well defined practice with a declared goal and has multiple articles on the topic. But lacks data on it's effectiveness, but could in theory have data collected and it's effectiveness proven.
> 
> An example of an Incubation practice would be Red Green Refactor. It's a common practice who's practitioners report gains when combined with other practices. But it lacks data on it's benefits when done in isolation , and there might be evidence that if done without full understanding, can cause harm.
> 
> Then an example of graduated would be practices which have been studied or reported on in academic /trade journals with clear data demonstrating that companies who adopt these practices deliver better software than those that don't.  For example, quick iterations between tests and production code.
> 
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 00:34 Avi Kessner via Groups.Io <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> If I were to market XP today I would call it "Continuous Coding". So you do CC, then CI, then CD.  You could shorten this to C3, and bring XP back in a full circle.
> 
> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019, 23:22 Slava Imeshev via Groups.Io <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Robin,
> 
> I think it’s a great idea to build a sellable brand for XP. How about 'Effective Programming', as in delivering results?
> 
> Slava
> 
>> On Dec 4, 2019, at 10:42 AM, R Dymond <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hey Ron!
>> 
>> Yes I believe Howard could invest *a lot* if he saw a route to growing these practices.
>> 
>> A couple ideas:
>> Agree that this needs a major rebranding. "Safe" sells, "extreme" is a terrible brand for an industry practice. James Gosling, working at Sun got marketing and branding involved and thats why we got the great branding for Java.
>> 
>> How do we make these ideas cool? Can we get the top tech celebrities advocating and pitching for these ideas? By celebs I mean mainstream tech celebs like Linus Torvalds, some of these guys https://www.quora.com/Who-are-the-best-engineers-at-Google-Why <https://www.quora.com/Who-are-the-best-engineers-at-Google-Why>
>> And also tech business leaders who can influence the CXO crowd.
>> 
>> 
>> Robin Dymond, CST
>> Managing Partner, Innovel
>> www.innovel.net <http://www.innovel.net/>
>> www.scrumtraining.com <http://www.scrumtraining.com/>
>> Direct: (804) 239-4329
>> twitter: @robindymond
>> Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond <https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond>
>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019, 9:17 AM Ron Jeffries <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> Hi Robin,
>> 
>> Nice to see you here!
>> 
>> sent from iPad, probably via Mars. Errors, if any, are not mine.
>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> is a better address for me, maybe.
>> 
>> > On Dec 4, 2019, at 12:58 AM, R Dymond <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> > 
>> > Being in the Scrum camp more than XP, in every CSM I overview in detail TDD, CI, Pairing, Mobbing and Swarming. Also explain that you have to look at XP,  not Scrum for great ideas on how to make great quality software.
>> 
>> I wish we knew how many CSTs do that. I think what we do know is that even that apparently doesn't work, as your own story below tells.
>> > 
>> > I am at a loss on how to sell these ideas though. At a client who I started working with Scrum in 2010 I have trained most the staff on Scrum. They have over 1000 developers. We sold a total of 2 XP/TDD immersion courses with a well known XP Coach after strenuous internal marketing from HR and finally a Dev Sr Mgr assigning people to the classes. This same company spends millions per year on dev training and regularly sell out courses on Swift, C++, python, r, react, vmware, AWS, Azure, tensorflow etc. etc. Budget isn't the issue, demand for XP practices training is the struggle.
>> > 
>> > So in 20 years we still do not have the business case we need to convince developers to widely adopt and spread these ideas.
>> 
>> It's a puzzlement. I've been talking with Howard Sublett (Scrum Alliance Chief Product Owner, for those who don't know) about the developer problem. He's interested, and I think he'd put some money behind it, but I'm at a loss as to how to effectively help. It's not clear what to do.
>> 
>> Ah well,
>> 
>> R
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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