Re: [extremeprogramming] What has changed for you over the past 20 years?

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There are 3 distinct cases in my mind:

1. Trivial bug - it is obvious what we did wrong and we just correct it.
That case might involved fixing a few unit tests, but does not involve TDD=
.

2. What we did was wrong. - Rip out the wrong code and tests and start ove=
r
with the right functional test.  This involves redoing the development
using TDD, but TDD is no more or less useful that it is for normal
development.

3. What we did was right, but we were missing a requirement - formulate a
new user story and implement it.  This again involves TDD, but still in th=
e
ordinary way.

Saying "TDD works great here" implies a non-existent difference with how
TDD works in normal development.


On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 6:19 AM Ron Jeffries <[email protected]>
wrote:

> FWIW I [almost] never debug. In most languages I don't even know how to
> run the debugger. Once in a while, rarely, I'll stuff in a print.
> Generally, I just write a test that fails.
>
> On Dec 5, 2019, at 8:11 AM, Phil Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Right. There's a step zero involving good old fashioned debugging to fin=
d
> the root cause, but then it makes sense to test drive the solution for a=
ll
> the trains it makes sense to TDD in the first place.
>
>
>
> Ron Jeffries
> ronjeffries.com
> Whenever I feel discouraged, I remember the words of my then-3 yr old
> after she puked carrots on the floor: =E2=80=9CI=E2=80=99m gonna need mo=
re carrots.=E2=80=9D
> =E2=80=94 @JessicaValenti
>
>=20
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>There are 3 distinct cases in my mind:</div><div><br>=
</div><div>1. Trivial bug - it is obvious what we did wrong and we just cor=
rect it.=C2=A0 That case might involved fixing a few unit tests, but does n=
ot involve TDD.</div><div><br></div><div>2. What we did was wrong. - Rip ou=
t the wrong code and tests and start over with the right functional test.=
=C2=A0 This involves redoing the development using TDD, but TDD is no more=
 or less useful that it is for normal development.</div><div><br></div><div=
>3. What we did was right, but we were missing a requirement - formulate a =
new user story and implement it.=C2=A0 This again involves TDD, but still i=
n the ordinary way.</div><div><br></div><div>Saying &quot;TDD works great h=
ere&quot; implies a non-existent difference with how TDD works in normal de=
velopment.</div><div>=C2=A0<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><=
div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 6:19 AM Ron Jef=
fries &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">ronjeffriesacm@gmail.=
com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1e=
x"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">FWIW I [almost] never debug. I=
n most languages I don&#39;t even know how to run the debugger. Once in a w=
hile, rarely, I&#39;ll stuff in a print. Generally, I just write a test tha=
t fails.<br><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Dec 5, 2019, at 8:11=
 AM, Phil Goodwin &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_=
blank">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div><span style=3D"f=
ont-family:ArialMT;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:norma=
l;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px=
;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:no=
ne;float:none;display:inline">Right. There&#39;s a step zero involving good=
 old fashioned debugging to find the root cause, but then it makes sense to=
 test drive the solution for all the trains it makes sense to TDD in the fi=
rst place.</span></div></blockquote></div><br><div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text=
-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial;font-size:16px;font-style:normal=
;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-ali=
gn:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacin=
g:0px"></div><br>Ron Jeffries<br><a href=3D"http://ronjeffries.com" target=
=3D"_blank">ronjeffries.com</a><br>Whenever I feel discouraged, I=C2=A0rem=
ember the words of my=C2=A0then-3 yr old after she puked=C2=A0carrots on th=
e floor: =E2=80=9CI=E2=80=99m gonna=C2=A0need more carrots.=E2=80=9D<br>=E2=
=
=80=94 @JessicaValenti</div>
</div>
<br></div>


<p></p><p></p></blockquote></div>

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