Re: [extremeprogramming] What has changed for you over the past 20 years?

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I'm just saying that you have to know what went wrong in order to write the
test. I work in an area where there are a ton of integrations and
environmental issues that can cause failures. Often the bugs we find have
to do with accommodating external behaviors that we find surprising. TDD
only helps you know that what you wrote matches you intentions. It takes
another layer of (constant) work to align intentions with reality.

On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 8:19 AM Ron Jeffries <[email protected]> wrote=
:

> FWIW I [almost] never debug. In most languages I don't even know how to
> run the debugger. Once in a while, rarely, I'll stuff in a print.
> Generally, I just write a test that fails.
>
> On Dec 5, 2019, at 8:11 AM, Phil Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Right. There's a step zero involving good old fashioned debugging to fin=
d
> the root cause, but then it makes sense to test drive the solution for a=
ll
> the trains it makes sense to TDD in the first place.
>
>
>
> Ron Jeffries
> ronjeffries.com
> Whenever I feel discouraged, I remember the words of my then-3 yr old
> after she puked carrots on the floor: =E2=80=9CI=E2=80=99m gonna need mo=
re carrots.=E2=80=9D
> =E2=80=94 @JessicaValenti
>
>=20
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m just saying that you have to know what went wrong=
 in order to write the test. I work in an area where there are a ton of int=
egrations and environmental issues that can cause failures. Often the bugs =
we find have to do with accommodating external behaviors that we find surpr=
ising. TDD only helps you know that what you wrote matches you intentions. =
It takes another layer of (constant) work to align intentions with reality.=
</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">=
On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 8:19 AM Ron Jeffries &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ronjeffries=
[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc soli=
d;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-whi=
te-space">FWIW I [almost] never debug. In most languages I don&#39;t even k=
now how to run the debugger. Once in a while, rarely, I&#39;ll stuff in a p=
rint. Generally, I just write a test that fails.<br><div><br><blockquote ty=
pe=3D"cite"><div>On Dec 5, 2019, at 8:11 AM, Phil Goodwin &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">phil.good=
[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div><span style=3D"font-family:Arial=
MT;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:no=
rmal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:=
none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;di=
splay:inline!important">Right. There&#39;s a step zero involving good old f=
ashioned debugging to find the root cause, but then it makes sense to test =
drive the solution for all the trains it makes sense to TDD in the first pl=
ace.</span></div></blockquote></div><br><div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text=
-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wr=
ap:break-word"><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial;font-size:1=
6px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-sp=
acing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-spa=
ce:normal;word-spacing:0px"></div><br>Ron Jeffries<br><a href=3D"http://ron=
jeffries.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">ronjeffries.com</a><br>W=
henever I feel discouraged, I=C2=A0remember the words of my=C2=A0then-3 yr =
old after she puked=C2=A0carrots on the floor: =E2=80=9CI=E2=80=99m gonna=
=C2=A0need more carrots.=E2=80=9D<br>=E2=80=94 @JessicaValenti</div>
</div>
<br></div>


</p></p></blockquote></div>

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