Re: [extremeprogramming] What has changed for you over the past 20 years?
"George Paci" <[email protected]> Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:36:06 -0500
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.programming.extreme-programming |
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--------------9EA1E50992AFD606518DA23C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am definitely stealing this term and spreading it. "If you want to do Continuous Delivery, you need to do Continuous Integration. And if you want to do Continuous Integration, you need to do Continuous Coding." Memorable. Also true. —George Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get tired. - Jules Renard On 12/4/19 5:33 PM, Avi Kessner wrote: > If I were to market XP today I would call it "Continuous Coding". So > you do CC, then CI, then CD. You could shorten this to C3, and bring > XP back in a full circle. > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2019, 23:22 Slava Imeshev via Groups.Io > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Robin, > > I think it’s a great idea to build a sellable brand for XP. How > about 'Effective Programming', as in delivering results? > > Slava > >> On Dec 4, 2019, at 10:42 AM, R Dymond <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Hey Ron! >> >> Yes I believe Howard could invest *a lot* if he saw a route to >> growing these practices. >> >> A couple ideas: >> Agree that this needs a major rebranding. "Safe" sells, "extreme" >> is a terrible brand for an industry practice. James Gosling, >> working at Sun got marketing and branding involved and thats why >> we got the great branding for Java. >> >> How do we make these ideas cool? Can we get the top tech >> celebrities advocating and pitching for these ideas? By celebs I >> mean mainstream tech celebs like Linus Torvalds, some of these >> guys https://www.quora.com/Who-are-the-best-engineers-at-Google-Why >> And also tech business leaders who can influence the CXO crowd. >> >> >> Robin Dymond, CST >> Managing Partner, Innovel >> www.innovel.net <http://www.innovel.net/> >> www.scrumtraining.com <http://www.scrumtraining.com/> >> Direct: (804) 239-4329 >> twitter: @robindymond >> Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond >> >> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019, 9:17 AM Ron Jeffries >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Hi Robin, >> >> Nice to see you here! >> >> sent from iPad, probably via Mars. Errors, if any, are not mine. >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> is a better >> address for me, maybe. >> >> > On Dec 4, 2019, at 12:58 AM, R Dymond <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> > >> > Being in the Scrum camp more than XP, in every CSM I >> overview in detail TDD, CI, Pairing, Mobbing and Swarming. >> Also explain that you have to look at XP, not Scrum for >> great ideas on how to make great quality software. >> >> I wish we knew how many CSTs do that. I think what we do know >> is that even that apparently doesn't work, as your own story >> below tells. >> > >> > I am at a loss on how to sell these ideas though. At a >> client who I started working with Scrum in 2010 I have >> trained most the staff on Scrum. They have over 1000 >> developers. We sold a total of 2 XP/TDD immersion courses >> with a well known XP Coach after strenuous internal marketing >> from HR and finally a Dev Sr Mgr assigning people to the >> classes. This same company spends millions per year on dev >> training and regularly sell out courses on Swift, C++, >> python, r, react, vmware, AWS, Azure, tensorflow etc. etc. >> Budget isn't the issue, demand for XP practices training is >> the struggle. >> > >> > So in 20 years we still do not have the business case we >> need to convince developers to widely adopt and spread these >> ideas. >> >> It's a puzzlement. I've been talking with Howard Sublett >> (Scrum Alliance Chief Product Owner, for those who don't >> know) about the developer problem. He's interested, and I >> think he'd put some money behind it, but I'm at a loss as to >> how to effectively help. It's not clear what to do. >> >> Ah well, >> >> R >> >> >> > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#160439): https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/message/160439 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/39418691/2417047 Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/leave/4902963/619838065/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- --------------9EA1E50992AFD606518DA23C Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> </head> <body> <p>I am definitely stealing this term and spreading it.</p> <p>"If you want to do Continuous Delivery, you need to do Continuous Integration. And if you want to do Continuous Integration, you need to do Continuous Coding."</p> <p>Memorable. Also true.</p> <p>—George</p> <p> Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get tired.<br> - Jules Renard<br> <br> </p> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/4/19 5:33 PM, Avi Kessner wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAGEhWpFSDd5UfnEPAEuF-g8E-83Fd8BNTzTQF-fihWan+fFPdw@mail.gmail.com"> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> <div dir="auto">If I were to market XP today I would call it "Continuous Coding". So you do CC, then CI, then CD. You could shorten this to C3, and bring XP back in a full circle.</div> <br> <div class="gmail_quote"> <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Dec 4, 2019, 23:22 Slava Imeshev via Groups.Io <imeshev=<a href="mailto:[email protected]" moz-do-not-send="true">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div style="word-wrap:break-word"> <div>Robin,</div> <div><br> </div> I think it’s a great idea to build a sellable brand for XP. How about 'Effective Programming', as in delivering results? <div><br> </div> <div>Slava</div> <div><br> <div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div>On Dec 4, 2019, at 10:42 AM, R Dymond <<a href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">[email protected]</a>> wrote:</div> <br> <div> <div dir="auto"> <div dir="auto">Hey Ron! <div dir="auto"><br> </div> <div dir="auto">Yes I believe Howard could invest *a lot* if he saw a route to growing these practices.</div> <div dir="auto"><br> </div> <div dir="auto">A couple ideas:</div> <div dir="auto">Agree that this needs a major rebranding. "Safe" sells, "extreme" is a terrible brand for an industry practice. James Gosling, working at Sun got marketing and branding involved and thats why we got the great branding for Java.</div> <div dir="auto"><br> </div> <div dir="auto">How do we make these ideas cool? Can we get the top tech celebrities advocating and pitching for these ideas? By celebs I mean mainstream tech celebs like Linus Torvalds, some of these guys <a href="https://www.quora.com/Who-are-the-best-engineers-at-Google-Why" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.quora.com/Who-are-the-best-engineers-at-Google-Why</a><br> And also tech business leaders who can influence the CXO crowd.</div> <div dir="auto"><br> </div> <div dir="auto"><br> <div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">Robin Dymond, CST<br> Managing Partner, Innovel<br> <a href="http://www.innovel.net/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.innovel.net</a><br> <a href="http://www.scrumtraining.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.scrumtraining.com</a><br> Direct: (804) 239-4329<br> twitter: @robindymond<br> Linkedin: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond</a></div> </div> </div> <br> <div class="gmail_quote"> <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Dec 4, 2019, 9:17 AM Ron Jeffries <<a href="mailto:[email protected]" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Robin,<br> <br> Nice to see you here!<br> <br> sent from iPad, probably via Mars. Errors, if any, are not mine.<br> <a href="mailto:[email protected]" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">[email protected]</a> is a better address for me, maybe.<br> <br> > On Dec 4, 2019, at 12:58 AM, R Dymond <<a href="mailto:[email protected]" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> > <br> > Being in the Scrum camp more than XP, in every CSM I overview in detail TDD, CI, Pairing, Mobbing and Swarming. Also explain that you have to look at XP, not Scrum for great ideas on how to make great quality software.<br> <br> I wish we knew how many CSTs do that. I think what we do know is that even that apparently doesn't work, as your own story below tells.<br> > <br> > I am at a loss on how to sell these ideas though. At a client who I started working with Scrum in 2010 I have trained most the staff on Scrum. They have over 1000 developers. We sold a total of 2 XP/TDD immersion courses with a well known XP Coach after strenuous internal marketing from HR and finally a Dev Sr Mgr assigning people to the classes. This same company spends millions per year on dev training and regularly sell out courses on Swift, C++, python, r, react, vmware, AWS, Azure, tensorflow etc. etc. Budget isn't the issue, demand for XP practices training is the struggle.<br> > <br> > So in 20 years we still do not have the business case we need to convince developers to widely adopt and spread these ideas.<br> <br> It's a puzzlement. I've been talking with Howard Sublett (Scrum Alliance Chief Product Owner, for those who don't know) about the developer problem. He's interested, and I think he'd put some money behind it, but I'm at a loss as to how to effectively help. It's not clear what to do.<br> <br> Ah well,<br> <br> R<br> <br> <br> <br> </blockquote> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> </body> </html> <div width="1" style="color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> <hr> Groups.io Links:<p> You receive all messages sent to this group. <p> <a target="_blank" href="https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/message/160439">View/Reply Online (#160439)</a> | <a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bextremeprogramming%5D%20What%20has%20changed%20for%20you%20over%20the%20past%2020%20years%3F">Reply To Group</a> | <a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bextremeprogramming%5D%20What%20has%20changed%20for%20you%20over%20the%20past%2020%20years%3F">Reply To Sender</a> | <a target="_blank" href="https://groups.io/mt/39418691/2417047">Mute This Topic</a> | <a href="https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/post">New Topic</a><br> <br> <a href="https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/editsub/2417047">Your Subscription</a> | <a href="mailto:[email protected]">Contact Group Owner</a> | <a href="https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/leave/4902963/619838065/xyzzy">Unsubscribe</a> [[email protected]]<br> <div width="1" style="color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> --------------9EA1E50992AFD606518DA23C--