Re: [extremeprogramming] What has changed for you over the past 20 years?
"R Dymond" <[email protected]> Fri, 6 Dec 2019 09:37:23 -0600
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--000000000000357ac205990ad3d9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Dec 6, 2019, 8:01 AM Eb Alson <[email protected]> wrote: > Under what circumstances should a leader impose any of these practices? > I think that was his question as well. > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 9:58 AM R Dymond <[email protected]> wrote: > >> CNCF is really impressive. That growth! It is underwritten by linux >> foundation and google. >> >> I was discussing TDD with a leader in a software company that just closed >> a $40M round and expects to grow from 19 to 40 teams. He said they have >> some teams who do TDD and pairing all the time, some who do it only on >> harder stuff and some who do not. They have some former thoughtworks alumni >> and many junior staff, and given the difficulty of recruiting senior staff >> in their location they expect many of their new hires to be 0 to 3 years of >> experience. >> >> He has had the experience of being in company where they mandated TDD and >> pairing, then had some people leave and other people who wanted to work >> that way join. >> >> So it is a puzzle to him as well. He doesn't feel he can mandate it at >> this point, and also he would prefer pull to push. >> >> Robin Dymond, CST >> Managing Partner, Innovel >> www.innovel.net >> www.scrumtraining.com >> Direct: (804) 239-4329 >> twitter: @robindymond >> Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond >> >> On Fri, Dec 6, 2019, 7:13 AM Ron Jeffries <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi ... >>> >>> sent from iPad, probably via Mars. Errors, if any, are not mine. >>> [email protected] is a better address for me, maybe. >>> >>> > On Dec 5, 2019, at 4:36 PM, Slava Imeshev via Groups.Io <imeshev= >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > There may be many more ways to accomplish this without doing it Scrum >>> way. Just a few initial ideas: >>> > >>> > 1. Textbooks combined with guided self-study. >>> > 2. Udemy/Cousera/Youtube video courses. >>> > 3. Reference cards to be given to new hires ("This is how we do it >>> here"). >>> > 4. Continuous stream of talks at conferences and meetups. >>> > 5. Magazine articles. >>> > 6. Study groups. >>> > 5. A mobile app with references. >>> > >>> > What else? >>> >>> Yes I think there are ways like that, and they are needed. I believe >>> that the price has to be low enough that developers themselves will pay it >>> if need be. This makes me think that, in early days at least, until volumes >>> come up -- if they do -- the creation of these things needs to be >>> underweritten. >>> >>> R >>> >>> >>> >>> -- > blog: http://eikonne.wordpress.com > LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/ebenezer-ikonne > twitter: @eikonne > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#160451): https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/message/160451 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/39418691/2417047 Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/leave/4902963/619838065/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- --000000000000357ac205990ad3d9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"auto"><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" = class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 6, 2019, 8:01 AM Eb Alson <<a href=3D"m= ailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquot= e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol= id;padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir=3D"auto">Under what circumstances should= a leader impose any of these practices?</div></div></blockquote></div></di= v><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I think that was his questi= on as well.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div class= =3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .= 8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br><div class=3D"gma= il_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 9:58= AM R Dymond <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" r= el=3D"noreferrer">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote c= lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;= padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">CNCF is really impressive. That growth!= It is underwritten by linux foundation and google.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></= div><div dir=3D"auto">I was discussing TDD with a leader in a software comp= any that just closed a $40M round and expects to grow from 19 to 40 teams. = He said they have some teams who do TDD and pairing all the time, some who = do it only on harder stuff and some who do not. They have some former thoug= htworks alumni and many junior staff, and given the difficulty of recruitin= g senior staff in their location they expect many of their new hires to be = 0 to 3 years of experience.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"au= to">He has had the experience of being in company where they mandated TDD a= nd pairing, then had some people leave and other people who wanted to work = that way join.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">So it is = a puzzle to him as well. He doesn't feel he can mandate it at this=C2= =A0point, and also he would prefer pull to push.<br><br><div data-smartmai= l=3D"gmail_signature" dir=3D"auto">Robin Dymond, CST<br>Managing Partner, I= nnovel<br><a href=3D"http://www.innovel.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noref= errer">www.innovel.net</a><br><a href=3D"http://www.scrumtraining.com" targ= et=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">www.scrumtraining.com</a><br>Direct: (804)= 239-4329<br>twitter: @robindymond<br>Linkedin:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www= .linkedin.com/in/robindymond" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">https://= www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond</a></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmai= l_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 6, 2019, 7:13 AM= Ron Jeffries <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_bl= ank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><b= lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px = #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi ...<br> <br> sent from iPad, probably via Mars. Errors, if any, are not mine.<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" targe= t=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a> is a better address for me, maybe.<br> <br> > On Dec 5, 2019, at 4:36 PM, Slava Imeshev via Groups.Io <imeshev= =3D<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> > <br> > There may be many more ways to accomplish this without doing it Scrum= way. Just a few initial ideas:<br> > <br> > 1. Textbooks combined with guided self-study.<br> > 2. Udemy/Cousera/Youtube video courses.<br> > 3. Reference cards to be given to new hires ("This is how we do = it here").<br> > 4. Continuous stream of talks at conferences and meetups.<br> > 5. Magazine articles.<br> > 6. Study groups.<br> > 5. A mobile app with references.<br> > <br> > What else?<br> <br> Yes I think there are ways like that, and they are needed. I believe that = the price has to be low enough that developers themselves will pay it if ne= ed be. This makes me think that, in early days at least, until volumes come= up -- if they do -- the creation of these things needs to be underweritten= .<br> <br> R<br> <br> <br> <br> </blockquote></div> <p></p><p></p></blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartm= ail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>blog: <a href=3D"http://= eikonne.wordpress.com/" rel=3D"me nofollow noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht= tp://eikonne.wordpress.com</a></div><div>LinkedIn: <a href=3D"http://linked= in.com/in/ebenezer-ikonne" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">http://link= edin.com/in/ebenezer-ikonne</a></div> <div>twitter: @eikonne</div></div></div></div> <p></p><p></p></blockquote></div></div></div> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> <hr> Groups.io Links:<p> You receive all messages sent to this group. <p> <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/messag= e/160451">View/Reply Online (#160451)</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject= = =3DRe:%20Re%3A%20%5Bextremeprogramming%5D%20What%20has%20changed%20for%20y= ou%20over%20the%20past%2020%20years%3F">Reply To Group</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DPr= ivate:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bextremeprogramming%5D%20What%20has%20changed%20fo= r%20you%20over%20the%20past%2020%20years%3F">Reply To Sender</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/mt/39418691/2417047">Mu= te This Topic</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/post">New Topic</a><br= > <br> <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/editsub/2417047">Your Su= bscription</a> | <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Contact Group Owner<= /a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/leave/4902963/619838065/= xyzzy">Unsubscribe</a> [[email protected]]<br> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> --000000000000357ac205990ad3d9--