Re: [extremeprogramming] What has changed for you over the past 20 years?
"Slava Imeshev via Groups.Io" <[email protected]> Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:19:39 -0800
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.programming.extreme-programming |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--Apple-Mail=_54B19D67-A58A-45CE-86E4-6F747B0546D8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On Dec 6, 2019, at 7:01 AM, Eb Alson <[email protected]> wrote: >=20 > Under what circumstances should a leader impose any of these practices? How about needing to have things done? Slava >=20 > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 9:58 AM R Dymond <[email protected] <mailto:rdy= [email protected]>> wrote: > CNCF is really impressive. That growth! It is underwritten by linux foun= dation and google. >=20 > I was discussing TDD with a leader in a software company that just close= d a $40M round and expects to grow from 19 to 40 teams. He said they have s= ome teams who do TDD and pairing all the time, some who do it only on harde= r stuff and some who do not. They have some former thoughtworks alumni and = many junior staff, and given the difficulty of recruiting senior staff in t= heir location they expect many of their new hires to be 0 to 3 years of exp= erience. >=20 > He has had the experience of being in company where they mandated TDD an= d pairing, then had some people leave and other people who wanted to work t= hat way join. >=20 > So it is a puzzle to him as well. He doesn't feel he can mandate it at t= his point, and also he would prefer pull to push. >=20 > Robin Dymond, CST > Managing Partner, Innovel > www.innovel.net <http://www.innovel.net/> > www.scrumtraining.com <http://www.scrumtraining.com/> > Direct: (804) 239-4329 > twitter: @robindymond > Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond <https://www.linkedin.= com/in/robindymond> > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019, 7:13 AM Ron Jeffries <[email protected] <mai= lto:[email protected]>> wrote: > Hi ... >=20 > sent from iPad, probably via Mars. Errors, if any, are not mine. > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> is a better address for= me, maybe. >=20 > > On Dec 5, 2019, at 4:36 PM, Slava Imeshev via Groups.Io <imeshev=3Dyah= [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >=20 > > There may be many more ways to accomplish this without doing it Scrum = way. Just a few initial ideas: > >=20 > > 1. Textbooks combined with guided self-study. > > 2. Udemy/Cousera/Youtube video courses. > > 3. Reference cards to be given to new hires ("This is how we do it her= e"). > > 4. Continuous stream of talks at conferences and meetups. > > 5. Magazine articles. > > 6. Study groups. > > 5. A mobile app with references. > >=20 > > What else? >=20 > Yes I think there are ways like that, and they are needed. I believe tha= t the price has to be low enough that developers themselves will pay it if = need be. This makes me think that, in early days at least, until volumes co= me up -- if they do -- the creation of these things needs to be underweritt= en. >=20 > R >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > blog: http://eikonne.wordpress.com <http://eikonne.wordpress.com/> > LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/ebenezer-ikonne <http://linkedin.com/in= /ebenezer-ikonne> > twitter: @eikonne >=20 -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#160461): https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/messag= e/160461 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/39418691/2417047 Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/leave/4902963/61983806= 5/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- --Apple-Mail=_54B19D67-A58A-45CE-86E4-6F747B0546D8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html charset= =3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mod= e: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><br class=3D""= ><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Dec 6, 2019, = at 7:01 AM, Eb Alson <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">ama= [email protected]</a>> wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><= div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">Under what circ= umstances should a leader impose any of these practices?</div></div></div><= /blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>How about needing to have things done= ?</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Slava</div><div><br class=3D""><block= quote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D= ""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri,= Dec 6, 2019 at 9:58 AM R Dymond <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= class=3D"">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br class=3D""></div><blockqu= ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s= olid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">CNCF is really impressi= ve. That growth! It is underwritten by linux foundation and google.<div dir= = =3D"auto" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">I w= as discussing TDD with a leader in a software company that just closed a $4= 0M round and expects to grow from 19 to 40 teams. He said they have some te= ams who do TDD and pairing all the time, some who do it only on harder stuf= f and some who do not. They have some former thoughtworks alumni and many j= unior staff, and given the difficulty of recruiting senior staff in their l= ocation they expect many of their new hires to be 0 to 3 years of experienc= e.</div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"auto"= class=3D"">He has had the experience of being in company where they mandat= ed TDD and pairing, then had some people leave and other people who wanted = to work that way join.</div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D""><br class=3D""></d= iv><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">So it is a puzzle to him as well. He doesn'= t feel he can mandate it at this point, and also he would prefer pull = to push.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signatur= e" dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">Robin Dymond, CST<br class=3D"">Managing Partner= , Innovel<br class=3D""><a href=3D"http://www.innovel.net/" target=3D"_blan= k" class=3D"">www.innovel.net</a><br class=3D""><a href=3D"http://www.scrum= training.com/" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">www.scrumtraining.com</a><br cl= ass=3D"">Direct: (804) 239-4329<br class=3D"">twitter: @robindymond<br clas= s=3D"">Linkedin: <a href=3D"https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond" t= arget=3D"_blank" class=3D"">https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond</a></di= v></div></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cl= ass=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 6, 2019, 7:13 AM Ron Jeffries <<a href=3D= "mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">ronjeffriesa= [email protected]</a>> wrote:<br class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_= quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1= ex">Hi ...<br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> sent from iPad, probably via Mars. Errors, if any, are not mine.<br class= =3D""> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank= " class=3D"">[email protected]</a> is a better address for me, maybe.<br = class=3D""> <br class=3D""> > On Dec 5, 2019, at 4:36 PM, Slava Imeshev via Groups.Io <imeshev= =3D<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bl= ank" class=3D"">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br class=3D""> > <br class=3D""> > There may be many more ways to accomplish this without doing it Scrum= way. Just a few initial ideas:<br class=3D""> > <br class=3D""> > 1. Textbooks combined with guided self-study.<br class=3D""> > 2. Udemy/Cousera/Youtube video courses.<br class=3D""> > 3. Reference cards to be given to new hires ("This is how we do it he= re").<br class=3D""> > 4. Continuous stream of talks at conferences and meetups.<br class=3D= ""> > 5. Magazine articles.<br class=3D""> > 6. Study groups.<br class=3D""> > 5. A mobile app with references.<br class=3D""> > <br class=3D""> > What else?<br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> Yes I think there are ways like that, and they are needed. I believe that = the price has to be low enough that developers themselves will pay it if ne= ed be. This makes me think that, in early days at least, until volumes come= up -- if they do -- the creation of these things needs to be underweritten= .<br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> R<br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> </blockquote></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">= </div><div class=3D""><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div></blockq= uote></div></div>-- <br class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signatur= e" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div clas= s=3D""><div class=3D"">blog: <a href=3D"http://eikonne.wordpress.com/" rel= =3D"me nofollow" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">http://eikonne.wordpress.com= </a></div><div class=3D"">LinkedIn: <a href=3D"http://linkedin.com/in/ebene= zer-ikonne" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">http://linkedin.com/in/ebenezer-ik= onne</a></div> <div class=3D"">twitter: @eikonne</div></div></div></div> </div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> <hr> Groups.io Links:<p> You receive all messages sent to this group. <p> <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/messag= e/160461">View/Reply Online (#160461)</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject= = =3DRe:%20Re%3A%20%5Bextremeprogramming%5D%20What%20has%20changed%20for%20y= ou%20over%20the%20past%2020%20years%3F">Reply To Group</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DPriv= ate:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bextremeprogramming%5D%20What%20has%20changed%20for%= 20you%20over%20the%20past%2020%20years%3F">Reply To Sender</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/mt/39418691/2417047">Mu= te This Topic</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/post">New Topic</a><br= > <br> <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/editsub/2417047">Your Su= bscription</a> | <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Contact Group Owner<= /a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/leave/4902963/619838065/= xyzzy">Unsubscribe</a> [[email protected]]<br> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> --Apple-Mail=_54B19D67-A58A-45CE-86E4-6F747B0546D8--