Re: [extremeprogramming] What has changed for you over the past 20 years?
"Eb Alson" <[email protected]> Fri, 6 Dec 2019 14:31:25 -0500
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.programming.extreme-programming |
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| Message-ID | <CANEY99bGjU36AVuaTo1fNGWPF28TrxO+xv3QuHjNdtw2csgDrg@mail.gmail.com> |
--000000000000163aa105990e182a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry don=E2=80=99t understand. On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 2:19 PM Slava Imeshev via Groups.Io <imeshev=3D [email protected]> wrote: > > On Dec 6, 2019, at 7:01 AM, Eb Alson <[email protected]> wrote: > > Under what circumstances should a leader impose any of these practices? > > > How about needing to have things done? > > Slava > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 9:58 AM R Dymond <[email protected]> wrote: > >> CNCF is really impressive. That growth! It is underwritten by linux >> foundation and google. >> >> I was discussing TDD with a leader in a software company that just clos= ed >> a $40M round and expects to grow from 19 to 40 teams. He said they have >> some teams who do TDD and pairing all the time, some who do it only on >> harder stuff and some who do not. They have some former thoughtworks al= umni >> and many junior staff, and given the difficulty of recruiting senior st= aff >> in their location they expect many of their new hires to be 0 to 3 year= s of >> experience. >> >> He has had the experience of being in company where they mandated TDD a= nd >> pairing, then had some people leave and other people who wanted to work >> that way join. >> >> So it is a puzzle to him as well. He doesn't feel he can mandate it at >> this point, and also he would prefer pull to push. >> >> Robin Dymond, CST >> Managing Partner, Innovel >> www.innovel.net >> www.scrumtraining.com >> Direct: (804) 239-4329 >> twitter: @robindymond >> Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond >> >> On Fri, Dec 6, 2019, 7:13 AM Ron Jeffries <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi ... >>> >>> sent from iPad, probably via Mars. Errors, if any, are not mine. >>> [email protected] is a better address for me, maybe. >>> >>> > On Dec 5, 2019, at 4:36 PM, Slava Imeshev via Groups.Io <imeshev=3D >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > There may be many more ways to accomplish this without doing it Scru= m >>> way. Just a few initial ideas: >>> > >>> > 1. Textbooks combined with guided self-study. >>> > 2. Udemy/Cousera/Youtube video courses. >>> > 3. Reference cards to be given to new hires ("This is how we do it >>> here"). >>> > 4. Continuous stream of talks at conferences and meetups. >>> > 5. Magazine articles. >>> > 6. Study groups. >>> > 5. A mobile app with references. >>> > >>> > What else? >>> >>> Yes I think there are ways like that, and they are needed. I believe >>> that the price has to be low enough that developers themselves will pa= y it >>> if need be. This makes me think that, in early days at least, until vo= lumes >>> come up -- if they do -- the creation of these things needs to be >>> underweritten. >>> >>> R >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- > blog: http://eikonne.wordpress.com > LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/ebenezer-ikonne > twitter: @eikonne > > >=20 > > -- blog: http://eikonne.wordpress.com LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/ebenezer-ikonne twitter: @eikonne -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#160463): https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/messag= e/160463 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/39418691/2417047 Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/leave/4902963/61983806= 5/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- --000000000000163aa105990e182a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><div dir=3D"auto">Sorry don=E2=80=99t understand.</div></div><div><br>= <div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, De= c 6, 2019 at 2:19 PM Slava Imeshev via Groups.Io <imeshev=3D<a href=3D"m= ailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blo= ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c= cc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><br><div><bl= ockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Dec 6, 2019, at 7:01 AM, Eb Alson <<a hre= f=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wr= ote:</div><br><div><div><div dir=3D"auto">Under what circumstances should a= leader impose any of these practices?</div></div></div></blockquote><div><= br></div>How about needing to have things done?</div><div><br></div><div>Sl= ava</div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div></div></blockquote></div><= /div><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><di= v><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr"= >On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 9:58 AM R Dymond <<a href=3D"mailto:rdymond@inno= vel.net" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blo= ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c= cc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">CNCF is really impressive. Tha= t growth! It is underwritten by linux foundation and google.<div dir=3D"aut= o"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I was discussing TDD with a leader in a soft= ware company that just closed a $40M round and expects to grow from 19 to 4= 0 teams. He said they have some teams who do TDD and pairing all the time, = some who do it only on harder stuff and some who do not. They have some for= mer thoughtworks alumni and many junior staff, and given the difficulty of = recruiting senior staff in their location they expect many of their new hir= es to be 0 to 3 years of experience.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div = dir=3D"auto">He has had the experience of being in company where they manda= ted TDD and pairing, then had some people leave and other people who wanted= to work that way join.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">= So it is a puzzle to him as well. He doesn't feel he can mandate it at = this=C2=A0point, and also he would prefer pull to push.<br><br><div data-sm= artmail=3D"gmail_signature" dir=3D"auto">Robin Dymond, CST<br>Managing Part= ner, Innovel<br><a href=3D"http://www.innovel.net/" target=3D"_blank">www.i= nnovel.net</a><br><a href=3D"http://www.scrumtraining.com/" target=3D"_blan= k">www.scrumtraining.com</a><br>Direct: (804) 239-4329<br>twitter: @robindy= mond<br>Linkedin:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond" = target=3D"_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond</a></div></div></= div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On= Fri, Dec 6, 2019, 7:13 AM Ron Jeffries <<a href=3D"mailto:ronjeffriesac= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br><= /div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le= ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi ...<br> <br> sent from iPad, probably via Mars. Errors, if any, are not mine.<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank= ">[email protected]</a> is a better address for me, maybe.<br> <br> > On Dec 5, 2019, at 4:36 PM, Slava Imeshev via Groups.Io <imeshev= =3D<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bl= ank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> > <br> > There may be many more ways to accomplish this without doing it Scrum= way. Just a few initial ideas:<br> > <br> > 1. Textbooks combined with guided self-study.<br> > 2. Udemy/Cousera/Youtube video courses.<br> > 3. Reference cards to be given to new hires ("This is how we do = it here").<br> > 4. Continuous stream of talks at conferences and meetups.<br> > 5. Magazine articles.<br> > 6. Study groups.<br> > 5. A mobile app with references.<br> > <br> > What else?<br> <br> Yes I think there are ways like that, and they are needed. I believe that = the price has to be low enough that developers themselves will pay it if ne= ed be. This makes me think that, in early days at least, until volumes come= up -- if they do -- the creation of these things needs to be underweritten= .<br> <br> R<br> <br> <br> <br> </blockquote></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></blockquote></div></div>= </div></blockquote></div></div><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><bl= ockquote type=3D"cite"><div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartmail=3D"gmail= _signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>blog: <a href=3D"http://eikonne.word= press.com/" rel=3D"me nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://eikonne.wordpress.= com</a></div><div>LinkedIn: <a href=3D"http://linkedin.com/in/ebenezer-ikon= ne" target=3D"_blank">http://linkedin.com/in/ebenezer-ikonne</a></div> <div>twitter: @eikonne</div></div></div></div> </div></blockquote></div><br></div> <p></p><p></p></blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gm= ail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><di= v>blog: <a href=3D"http://eikonne.wordpress.com/" rel=3D"me nofollow" targe= t=3D"_blank">http://eikonne.wordpress.com</a></div><div>LinkedIn: <a href= =3D"http://linkedin.com/in/ebenezer-ikonne" target=3D"_blank">http://linke= din.com/in/ebenezer-ikonne</a></div> <div>twitter: @eikonne</div></div></div></div> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> <hr> Groups.io Links:<p> You receive all messages sent to this group. <p> <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/messag= e/160463">View/Reply Online (#160463)</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject= = =3DRe:%20Re%3A%20%5Bextremeprogramming%5D%20What%20has%20changed%20for%20y= ou%20over%20the%20past%2020%20years%3F">Reply To Group</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DPriva= te:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bextremeprogramming%5D%20What%20has%20changed%20for%2= 0you%20over%20the%20past%2020%20years%3F">Reply To Sender</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/mt/39418691/2417047">Mu= te This Topic</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/post">New Topic</a><br= > <br> <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/editsub/2417047">Your Su= bscription</a> | <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Contact Group Owner<= /a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/leave/4902963/619838065/= xyzzy">Unsubscribe</a> [[email protected]]<br> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> --000000000000163aa105990e182a--