Re: [extremeprogramming] What has changed for you over the past 20 years?
"Slava Imeshev via Groups.Io" <[email protected]> Fri, 6 Dec 2019 20:57:56 +0000 (UTC)
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I wish the reality connected with that. Like I said in a separate thread, =
there are teams that can self organize. I've seen it two or three of times.=
The didn't / doesn't.=C2=A0 There is a multitude of reasons why. It's real=
ly a people problem.=20
On Friday, December 6, 2019, 12:04:14 PM PST, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffrie=
[email protected]> wrote:
=20
It is my view that mandating any practice is directly counter both to the=
Scrum Guide and to the Manifesto.
Scrum Guide says that the team decides how to do the work. Manifesto says =
self-organization about 93 times.
Mandate results, not method.
On Dec 6, 2019, at 2:43 PM, R Dymond <[email protected]> wrote:
Agreed James. I would be much more comfortable mandating test automation, =
otherwise as you said a lot of cost for manual work is incurred... and isnt=
the business reason for software development often about eliminating manua=
l tedious work with automation?
Also comfortable mandating Agile since it lowers the risk of loss in produ=
ct development.
I would rather have people build their skills in a way that mixes curiosit=
y and mentorship. Having a culture of encouragement and leadership that val=
ues these ideas seems a better way to engage the interested. This is where =
celebrity devs could increase broad interest.
Ron Jeffriesronjeffries.comIt was important to me that we accumulate the l=
earnings about the application over time by modifying the program to look a=
s if we had known what we were doing all along.-- Ward Cunningham
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydpf215e4e9yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: =
13px;"><div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I wish the reality connecte=
d with that. Like I said in a separate thread, there are teams that can sel=
f organize. I've seen it two or three of times. The didn't / doesn't. =
There is a multitude of reasons why. It's really a people problem. <br></d=
iv><div><br></div>
</div><div id=3D"ydp5f395336yahoo_quoted_6060247767" class=3D"ydp5=
f395336yahoo_quoted">
<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, =
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div>
On Friday, December 6, 2019, 12:04:14 PM PST, Ron Jeff=
ries <[email protected]> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214"><div>It is my vi=
ew that mandating any practice is directly counter both to the Scrum Guide =
and to the Manifesto.<div class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214"><br class=3D"y=
dp5f395336yiv6580237214" clear=3D"none"></div><div class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6=
580237214">Scrum Guide says that the team decides how to do the work. Manif=
esto says self-organization about 93 times.</div><div class=3D"ydp5f395336y=
iv6580237214"><br class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214" clear=3D"none"></div><=
div class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214">Mandate results, not method.<br clas=
s=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214" clear=3D"none"><div><br class=3D"ydp5f395336=
yiv6580237214" clear=3D"none"><blockquote class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214=
" type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214">On Dec 6, 2019, at =
2:43 PM, R Dymond <<a shape=3D"rect" class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214" =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">rdym=
[email protected]</a>> wrote:</div><br class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214Ap=
ple-interchange-newline" clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237=
214"><div class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214" style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;=
font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-s=
pacing: 0px; text-decoration-line: none; text-decoration-style: solid; text=
-decoration-color: currentcolor;">Agreed James. I would be much more comfor=
table mandating test automation, otherwise as you said a lot of cost for ma=
nual work is incurred... and isnt the business reason for software developm=
ent often about eliminating manual tedious work with automation?</div><div =
class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214" style=3D"font-family: ArialMT; font-size=
: 18px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; te=
xt-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0p=
x; text-decoration-line: none; text-decoration-style: solid; text-decoratio=
n-color: currentcolor;"><br class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214" clear=3D"non=
e"></div><div class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214" style=3D"font-family: Aria=
lMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spaci=
ng: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; wo=
rd-spacing: 0px; text-decoration-line: none; text-decoration-style: solid; =
text-decoration-color: currentcolor;">Also comfortable mandating Agile sinc=
e it lowers the risk of loss in product development.</div><div class=3D"ydp=
5f395336yiv6580237214" style=3D"font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 18px; font=
-style: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0=
px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-deco=
ration-line: none; text-decoration-style: solid; text-decoration-color: cur=
rentcolor;"><br class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214" clear=3D"none"></div><di=
v class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214" style=3D"font-family: ArialMT; font-si=
ze: 18px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: =
0px; text-decoration-line: none; text-decoration-style: solid; text-decorat=
ion-color: currentcolor;">I would rather have people build their skills in =
a way that mixes curiosity and mentorship. Having a culture of encouragemen=
t and leadership that values these ideas seems a better way to engage the i=
nterested. This is where celebrity devs could increase broad interest.</div=
></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214" clear=3D"n=
one"><div class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214">
<div class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); lett=
er-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: no=
rmal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration-line: none; text-decoration-style:=
solid; text-decoration-color: currentcolor;"><div class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6=
580237214" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-inden=
t: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-=
decoration-line: none; text-decoration-style: solid; text-decoration-color:=
currentcolor;"><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font=
-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: norma=
l; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacin=
g: 0px; text-decoration-line: none; text-decoration-style: solid; text-deco=
ration-color: currentcolor;"><br class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214Apple-int=
erchange-newline" clear=3D"none">Ron Jeffries</div><div style=3D"color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-we=
ight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: non=
e; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration-line: none; text=
-decoration-style: solid; text-decoration-color: currentcolor;"><a shape=3D=
"rect" class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214" href=3D"https://ronjeffries.com" =
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">ronjeffries.com</a></div><div class=3D"y=
dp5f395336yiv6580237214" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; =
font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: n=
ormal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-sp=
acing: 0px; text-decoration-line: none; text-decoration-style: solid; text-=
decoration-color: currentcolor;"><div class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214">It=
was important to me that we accumulate the learnings about the application=
over time by modifying the program to look as if we had known what we were=
doing all along.</div><div class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214">-- Ward Cunn=
ingham</div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br class=3D"ydp5f395336yiv6580237214" clear=3D"none"></div></div><div>
</div></div></div></div>
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