Re: [extremeprogramming] What has changed for you over the past 20 years?

i think that would be useful, and consistent, perhaps, with agile alliance'=
s notions on certification=20

sent from iPad, probably via Mars. Errors, if any, are not mine.
[email protected] is a better address for me, maybe.

> On Dec 7, 2019, at 10:58 PM, Larry Brunelle <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Thanks for an interesting and enlightening parsing and distilling of
> wisdom found in some posts by others.  Humans (often regrettably) are
> motivated, and behave, well, like humans, and failure to recognize
> the same can get us bit pretty good.
>=20
> Phil Goodwin wrote:
>> Sometimes it pays to not fight fire with fire. Things that are not well=
 said are perhaps still worth saying.
>> I think there's an interesting tension here. At the root are the patter=
ns of dysfunction that pop up in the way people organize themselves to get =
work done. As a broad generalization we can try to get rid of the dysfuncti=
on by finding a better way and selling it, or we can meet the organizations=
 we encounter where they are and whittle away at the dysfunction one behavi=
or at a time.
>> When I read Robin's post I'm reminded of the times we've tried to bring=
 XP into an organization whose developers understood it well and were clear=
 about not wanting it. One of the big problems I've encountered while fight=
ing dysfunction is that dysfunction is not the same as non-function. Dysfun=
ctional systems work. They just work in a way that is unpleasant or otherwi=
se sub-optimal (usually by indirectly fulfilling needs that someone feels s=
hame about). If you try to fix the dysfunction without fulfilling the unsta=
ted need the system will start pushing your changes right back out.
>> James is right to be suspicious of any methodology that sells easily be=
cause transformative change is always uncomfortable (or else you'd already =
be doing it) and discomfort doesn't sell. I hear Robin making a different p=
oint, which is that we need to meet our teams in the condition where we fin=
d them and understand that they may be optimizing for different values than=
 we are. James is warning us away from accepting superficial changes that d=
on't address the underlying issues. Robin is saying that we shouldn't be so=
 stuck on our own values that we lose sight of what our customers are valui=
ng. I think there's some common ground to be found in recognizing the need =
to dig into the needs and beliefs that drive the behaviors of the teams we'=
re leading in order to improve the way they operate. When we do that we'll =
run into our own ideas about what is optimal and often find that they are i=
n conflict with the other leadership around us. It's in the process of reso=
lving those conflicts that real improvements will come.
>> And it's the process of resolution, not the resolution itself, that bri=
ngs about meaningful change. If the process unfolds in an honest and vulner=
able way the results will work if they are at all practical. If it doesn't =
no amount of formal structure will save the team from itself.
>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2019, 6:34 PM Tim Ottinger via Groups.Io <linux_tim=3Dya=
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>    Aggro much?
>>    I think that there is no reason that people who aren=E2=80=99t pro-c=
ertification aren=E2=80=99t innovators in plenty of areas. Case in point: t=
he original XP people.  I don=E2=80=99t think I=E2=80=99ve seen an XP certi=
fication, so there are no innovators there? Do certifications cause innovat=
ion or prevent it?
>>    Now, that said, none of us gets to choose who the innovators are in =
the world. You can expect whatever you want, as long as you don=E2=80=99t b=
lame the world for not meeting your expectations.
>>    J. Holmes is well respected for his teaching, thinking, writing. I d=
on=E2=80=99t think we need to rag on him or his views here.
>>    Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=
=
=3DiOS>
>>    On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 19:03, R Dymond <[email protected]=
 <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>        Great. So we will not expect any innovation from you. That's OK.=
 It took me a while to realize that Extreme Positions don't really do anyth=
ing except reflect on me. Calling things broken doesn't fix it. Waiting for=
 others to change means everything is out of my control, and that is handy =
if I want to criticize, and it absolves me of any responsibility. These day=
s I prefer to act, to have empathy, to recognize that people have succeeded=
 without many of the ideas we advocate. So we are not "right," we have a di=
fferent approach that we think is better. Our CUSTOMERS by in large do not =
agree that it is better.
>>        Regards
>>        Robin
>>        On Wed, Dec 4, 2019, 5:44 PM <[email protected] <mailto:jam=
[email protected]>> wrote:
>>            I'm always fascinated by folks who look at the corrupt, burn=
ing garbage heap that is Scrum Certification and think, "I want that, but f=
or development practices."
>>            I'm increasingly of the opinion that XP remains useful preci=
sely because it has not had the same popularity that Scrum has suffered. I'=
m likewise of the opinion that something that sells as well as Scrum in a m=
arket full of broken management systems and toxic workplaces is to be viewe=
d with extreme suspicion.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

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