RE: Books and a balance (was: What's up with C++ (books)?)
"Jeroen Wenting" <[email protected]> Tue, 31 May 2011 16:53:15 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.programming.language-of-the-year |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--mxtmGqQsd2KHoHpmbCyhTKe0HRmLL5DFzB15ci0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Namens > Ron Jeffries > Verzonden: dinsdag 31 mei 2011 11:54 > Aan: [email protected] > Onderwerp: Re: [pragprog] Books and a balance (was: What's up with C++ > (books)?) > > Hello, Jeroen. On Tuesday, May 31, 2011, at 4:20:42 AM, you wrote: > > >> Yes it would be nice if employers paid. But the person with the need > >> to improve needs also to own the responsibility to improve whether > >> employers pay or not. > >> > > yes, but if it's too expensive to afford, it's too expensive. > > > A few books anyone can pay for, but magazines are expensive luxuries. > > Most are little more than carriers for masses of advertising, yet > still > > cost several hundred Euro a year. > > Conferences cost thousands for a few days (not counting the cost of > > getting to and from the venue, hotel/restaurant food, and possible > car > > rentals). > > > Such costs are out of reach for most people, certainly they are over > here. > > If the magazine isn't useful, don't subscribe. If it is, one has > some deciding to do. To go to a conference, submit a paper or > convince employer. > Employer has strict travel policies: no international travel allowed (except for managers of course). If you submit a paper, you might not pay the conference fees, but you still have the travel expense, hotels, etc. which are the bulk of the total cost. > In the end, it's one's career. We have the choice to grow, or > stagnate and IMO that choice belongs to us, not to our employer. > Sure, but there's no need to spend a considerable portion of your income on it (visiting JavaOne on personal cost would be 10% of my pretax yearly income for example, add a few magazine subscriptions and JUGs for another 10%, another few percent on books, and you're talking 50% of your income after taxes (given the roughly 50% income tax rate here) going towards it. That's not sustainable for me. It might be for you, would depend on your income and lifestyle, but I need that money to pay the mortgage, insurance, electricity bills, etc. That leaves me a total of maybe $500 a month to spend on everything from professional development (books, publications, software, hardware) to hobbies and vacations. --mxtmGqQsd2KHoHpmbCyhTKe0HRmLL5DFzB15ci0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> <body style="background-color: #fff;"> <span style="display:none"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="position:relative;"> <div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index: 1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-text" > <p><br> <br> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----<br> > Van: <a href="mailto:pragprog%40yahoogroups.com">[email protected]</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:pragprog%40yahoogroups.com">[email protected]</a>] Namens<br> > Ron Jeffries<br> > Verzonden: dinsdag 31 mei 2011 11:54<br> > Aan: <a href="mailto:pragprog%40yahoogroups.com">[email protected]</a><br> > Onderwerp: Re: [pragprog] Books and a balance (was: What's up with C++<br> > (books)?)<br> > <br> > Hello, Jeroen. On Tuesday, May 31, 2011, at 4:20:42 AM, you wrote:<br> > <br> > >> Yes it would be nice if employers paid. But the person with the need<br> > >> to improve needs also to own the responsibility to improve whether<br> > >> employers pay or not.<br> > >><br> > > yes, but if it's too expensive to afford, it's too expensive.<br> > <br> > > A few books anyone can pay for, but magazines are expensive luxuries.<br> > > Most are little more than carriers for masses of advertising, yet<br> > still<br> > > cost several hundred Euro a year.<br> > > Conferences cost thousands for a few days (not counting the cost of<br> > > getting to and from the venue, hotel/restaurant food, and possible<br> > car<br> > > rentals).<br> > <br> > > Such costs are out of reach for most people, certainly they are over<br> > here.<br> > <br> > If the magazine isn't useful, don't subscribe. If it is, one has<br> > some deciding to do. To go to a conference, submit a paper or<br> > convince employer.<br> > <br> Employer has strict travel policies: no international travel allowed (except<br> for managers of course).<br> If you submit a paper, you might not pay the conference fees, but you still<br> have the travel expense, hotels, etc. which are the bulk of the total cost.<br> <br> > In the end, it's one's career. We have the choice to grow, or<br> > stagnate and IMO that choice belongs to us, not to our employer.<br> > <br> Sure, but there's no need to spend a considerable portion of your income on<br> it (visiting JavaOne on personal cost would be 10% of my pretax yearly<br> income for example, add a few magazine subscriptions and JUGs for another<br> 10%, another few percent on books, and you're talking 50% of your income<br> after taxes (given the roughly 50% income tax rate here) going towards it.<br> That's not sustainable for me. It might be for you, would depend on your<br> income and lifestyle, but I need that money to pay the mortgage, insurance,<br> electricity bills, etc. <br> That leaves me a total of maybe $500 a month to spend on everything from<br> professional development (books, publications, software, hardware) to<br> hobbies and vacations.<br> <br> </p> </div> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--> <div style="color: #fff; height: 0;">__._,_.___</div> <div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"> <div> <a href="mailto:[email protected]?subject=RE%3A%20%5Bpragprog%5D%20Books%20and%20a%20balance%20%28was%3A%20What%27s%20up%20with%20C%2B%2B%20%20%28books%29%3F%29" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"> Reply to <span style="font-weight: 700;">sender</span></a> | <a href="mailto:[email protected]?subject=RE%3A%20%5Bpragprog%5D%20Books%20and%20a%20balance%20%28was%3A%20What%27s%20up%20with%20C%2B%2B%20%20%28books%29%3F%29"> Reply to <span style="font-weight: 700;">group</span></a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pragprog/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNjg1N3B1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI4Mzg3MDgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3MjA3BG1zZ0lkAzEwMTcxBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMwNjg1MzYwMw--?act=reply&messageNum=10171">Reply <span style="font-weight: 700;">via web post</span></a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pragprog/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbGhyM3JiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI4Mzg3MDgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3MjA3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMwNjg1MzYwMw--" style="font-weight: 700;">Start a New Topic</a> </div> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pragprog/message/10136;_ylc=X3oDMTM2M2g3cmZsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI4Mzg3MDgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3MjA3BG1zZ0lkAzEwMTcxBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMwNjg1MzYwMwR0cGNJZAMxMDEzNg--">Messages in this topic</a> (<span style="font-weight: 700;">35</span>) </div> <!------- Start Nav Bar ------> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id="ygrp-vital" style="background-color: #e0ecee; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;"> <span id="vithd" style="font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-transform: uppercase; ">Recent Activity:</span> <ul style="list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: inline;"> </ul> <div style="clear: both; padding-top: 2px; color: #1e66ae;"> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pragprog;_ylc=X3oDMTJldjh0OTk5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI4Mzg3MDgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3MjA3BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMwNjg1MzYwMw--" style="text-decoration: none;">Visit Your Group</a> </div> </div> <div id="ygrp-mkp" style="border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; clear: both; float: left; font-family: Arial; margin: 5px 0 10px 0; padding: 0 10px;"> <div id="hd" style="color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0;">MARKETPLACE</div> <div id="ads" style="margin-bottom: 10px;"> <div class="ad" style="color: #628C2A; font-family: Arial; font-weight: 700; padding: 0 0;"> <p><a href="http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15olkknsc/M=493064.14543977.14365476.10835568/D=groups/S=1705007207:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1306860803/L=bbbd33dc-8b95-11e0-9d70-e34225a8e5c3/B=StNtIkoGYso-/J=1306853603785185/K=8Fp1b0DBctmoaVxoa_aigg/A=6078812/R=0/SIG=114ae4ln1/*http://dogandcatanswers.yahoo.com/">Get great advice about dogs and cats. 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