Re: L7 packet inspection

Chris Miller <[email protected]> Thu, 28 Jan 2010 08:24:39 -0600
Newsgroups	gmane.comp.programming.load-balancing.general
Message-ID	<93D15F5707293A4685CC256C9973470029B21D7C19@C-ASTRODSI-GAIA.mtolympus.partners.directs.com>
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Ken/other F5 folks,

Could ASM do this?

Chris Miller


________________________________
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of S=
. Stef=E1n Sigur=F0sson
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 4:53 AM
To: Load Balancing Mailing List
Subject: Re: [load balancing] L7 packet inspection

We are running MMO you may have heard of www.eveonline.com<http://www.eveon=
line.com>, now our servers are spending a allot of power investigating/auth=
enticating traffic to make sure users are not modifying their clients, tryi=
ng sending inject their own commands or trying to hack account.  We are loo=
king into handing some of that work over to the SLB or the network in front=
. Currently we are just trying to see what options we have and we don't hav=
e any defined needs, we may even reprogram some of our code to fit the L7 c=
apabilities.   Only thing I can say for sure is that any increase in latenc=
y is really bad for us.






From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of K=
enneth Salchow
Sent: 27. jan=FAar 2010 20:35
To: Load Balancing Mailing List
Subject: Re: [load balancing] L7 packet inspection

Sorry for delayed response-was having too much fun in Europe.  :)

Par usual, Ed, Tony and (increasingly) Surya have covered a lot of the base=
s here-what they didn't specifically call out, but intimated, is that you r=
eally didn't specify *what* you want to do at L7.  That's a HUGE determinat=
ion in what you look for and who you but it from.  The products, prices and=
 capabilities range quite widely-heck, even here at F5 we have several diff=
erent capabilities from the basic L7 capability in the ADC, to a protocol e=
nforcement product to a full-fledged application firewall.  Which solution =
makes the most sense totally depends on what you want to do.

Instead of just throwing out various products and vendors generically-can y=
ou narrow down your goals a little?

Thanks,

KJ (Ken) Salchow, Jr. | Manager, Technical Marketing

D 651.423.1133

M 612.868.1258

P 206.272.5555

F 206.272.5555

www.f5.com<http://www.f5.com/>



From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of S=
. Stef=E1n Sigur=F0sson
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 5:28 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [load balancing] L7 packet inspection

Hi, my company wants to start doing packet L7 inspection on all traffic goi=
ng through the load balancer.

Now my concern (cost aside) is how will I get the best performance possible=
, ever ms counts.

We are currently  using an Ace module to do our SLB and it has the option o=
f L7 inspect but will that perform any better than putting a good L7 firewa=
ll in front of the ACE.

We are still just in the concept stage of this plan so any advice or good i=
dea would be greatly appreciated..

S. Stefan

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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D029512014-28012010><FONT color=3D=
#0000ff=20
size=3D2 face=3DArial>Ken/other F5 folks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D029512014-28012010><FONT color=3D=
#0000ff=20
size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D029512014-28012010><FONT color=3D=
#0000ff=20
size=3D2 face=3DArial>Could ASM do this?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Chris Miller</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV dir=3Dltr lang=3Den-us class=3DOutlookMessageHeader align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><B>From:</B> [email protected]=20
[mailto:[email protected]] <B>On Behalf Of </B>S. Stef=E1n=20
Sigur=F0sson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 28, 2010 4:53 AM<BR><B>To:</=
B> Load=20
Balancing Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [load balancing] L7 packet=20
inspection<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d" lang=3DEN-US>We are run=
ning MMO=20
you may have heard of <A href=3D"http://www.eveonline.com">www.eveonline.co=
m</A>,=20
now our servers are spending a allot of power investigating/authenticating=
=20
traffic to make sure users are not modifying their clients, trying sending=
=20
inject their own commands or trying to hack account.&nbsp; We are looking i=
nto=20
handing some of that work over to the SLB or the network in front. Currentl=
y we=20
are just trying to see what options we have and we don=92t have any defined=
 needs,=20
we may even reprogram some of our code to fit the L7 capabilities.=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;Only thing I can say for sure is that any increase in latency i=
s=20
really bad for us.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTT=
OM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt sol=
id; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"=20
lang=3DEN-US>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3DEN-US>=
=20
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] <B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>Kenneth Salchow<BR><B>Sent:</B> 27. jan=FAar 2010 20:35<BR><B>To:</B> L=
oad=20
Balancing Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [load balancing] L7 packet=20
inspection<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d" lang=3DEN-US>Sorry for =
delayed=20
response=97was having too much fun in Europe.&nbsp; </SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings; COLOR: #1f497d" lang=3DEN-US>J</SPAN><SPAN=
=20
style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d" lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d" lang=3DEN-US>Par usual,=
 Ed, Tony=20
and (increasingly) Surya have covered a lot of the bases here=97what they d=
idn=92t=20
specifically call out, but intimated, is that you really didn=92t specify=20
*<B>what</B>* you want to do at L7.&nbsp; That=92s a HUGE determination in =
what=20
you look for and who you but it from.&nbsp; The products, prices and=20
capabilities range quite widely=97heck, even here at F5 we have several dif=
ferent=20
capabilities from the basic L7 capability in the ADC, to a protocol enforce=
ment=20
product to a full-fledged application firewall.&nbsp; Which solution makes =
the=20
most sense totally depends on what you want to do.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d" lang=3DEN-US>Instead of=
 just=20
throwing out various products and vendors generically=97can you narrow down=
 your=20
goals a little?&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"=20
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
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  <TR>
    <TD=20
    style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0=
.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
    colSpan=3D5>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE=
: 10pt">KJ=20
      (Ken) Salchow, Jr.</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE=
: 10pt">=20
      | Manager, Technical Marketing</SPAN><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></TD>=
</TR>
  <TR style=3D"HEIGHT: 9pt">
    <TD=20
    style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 63pt; PAD=
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      <P=20
      style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: 9pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-botto=
m-alt: auto"=20
      class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #333333; FONT-SIZE=
: 7.5pt">D=20
      651.423.1133</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></TD>
    <TD=20
    style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 63pt; PAD=
DING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; HEIGHT: 9pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
    width=3D84>
      <P style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: 9pt" class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #333333; FONT-SIZE=
: 7.5pt">M=20
      612.868.1258</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></TD>
    <TD=20
    style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 63pt; PAD=
DING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; HEIGHT: 9pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
    width=3D84>
      <P style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: 9pt" class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #333333; FONT-SIZE=
: 7.5pt">P=20
      206.272.5555</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></TD>
    <TD=20
    style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 63pt; PAD=
DING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; HEIGHT: 9pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
    width=3D84>
      <P style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: 9pt" class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #333333; FONT-SIZE=
: 7.5pt">F=20
      206.272.5555</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></TD>
    <TD=20
    style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 51.75pt; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; HEIGHT: 9pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
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      <P style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: 9pt" class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #333333; FONT-SIZE=
: 7.5pt"><A=20
      href=3D"http://www.f5.com/"><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: #333333">www.f5.com</SPAN></A></SPAN></B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></TD>=
</TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTT=
OM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt sol=
id; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt" class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"=20
lang=3DEN-US>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3DEN-US>=
=20
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] <B>On Behalf Of </B>=
S.=20
Stef=E1n Sigur=F0sson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 22, 2010 5:28 AM<BR><=
B>To:</B>=20
[email protected]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [load balancing] L7 packet=20
inspection<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Hi, my =
company=20
wants to start doing packet L7 inspection on all traffic going through the =
load=20
balancer.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Now <SP=
AN=20
style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">m</SPAN>y concern (cost aside) is how will I get t=
he best=20
performance possible, ever ms counts.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>We are =
currently=20
&nbsp;using an Ace module to do our SLB and it has the option of L7 inspect=
 but=20
will that perform any better than putting a good L7 firewall in front of th=
e=20
ACE.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>We are =
still just=20
in the concept stage of this plan so any advice or good idea would be great=
ly=20
appreciated..<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt" class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt" class=3DMsoNormal>S. Stefan=20
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