Re: L7 packet inspection
Kenneth Salchow <[email protected]> Thu, 28 Jan 2010 09:17:20 -0800
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.programming.load-balancing.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <4B18A8F75A6384449755BC7784073E9360EEB2CB98@exch11.olympus.f5net.com> |
--===============1145874524== Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01CAA00B.754326E0" ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CAA00B.754326E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001F_01CAA00B.754326E0" ------=_NextPart_001_001F_01CAA00B.754326E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, that=92s the kind of detail that will help. Although, it looks like = two discrete issues: 1. Authentication of the data stream during play; 2. Protecting AAA services (which I assume are fairly = straight-forward web-auth). =20 The second one is more likely a perfect fit for traditional web = application firewalls=97because there are very common web-based formats and services = most likely being supported (defined fields with specific URLs) and easy = things like brute-force attack prevention. =20 The first one, however, depends a lot on how your service communicates = (as Surya intimated). What does a typical interaction look like and how = would a modified one look? I=92ve never sniffed the traffic for a game like = this=97so I frankly have no idea what this looks like. It sounds (looks) like you = have some client components which, while they probably talk over port 80 for getting through firewalls, also probably aren=92t http? =20 Of course=97I=92m still a little fuzzy from jet-lag and I could be being completely obtuse; feel free to let me know. J =20 KJ (Ken) Salchow, Jr. | Manager, Technical Marketing D 651.423.1133 M 612.868.1258 P 206.272.5555 F 206.272.5555 <http://www.f5.com/> www.f5.com =20 =20 From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf = Of S. Stef=E1n Sigur=F0sson Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 4:53 AM To: Load Balancing Mailing List Subject: Re: [load balancing] L7 packet inspection =20 We are running MMO you may have heard of www.eveonline.com, now our = servers are spending a allot of power investigating/authenticating traffic to = make sure users are not modifying their clients, trying sending inject their = own commands or trying to hack account. We are looking into handing some of that work over to the SLB or the network in front. Currently we are just trying to see what options we have and we don=92t have any defined = needs, we may even reprogram some of our code to fit the L7 capabilities. Only = thing I can say for sure is that any increase in latency is really bad for us. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf = Of Kenneth Salchow Sent: 27. jan=FAar 2010 20:35 To: Load Balancing Mailing List Subject: Re: [load balancing] L7 packet inspection =20 Sorry for delayed response=97was having too much fun in Europe. J =20 Par usual, Ed, Tony and (increasingly) Surya have covered a lot of the = bases here=97what they didn=92t specifically call out, but intimated, is that = you really didn=92t specify *what* you want to do at L7. That=92s a HUGE determination in what you look for and who you but it from. The = products, prices and capabilities range quite widely=97heck, even here at F5 we = have several different capabilities from the basic L7 capability in the ADC, = to a protocol enforcement product to a full-fledged application firewall. = Which solution makes the most sense totally depends on what you want to do. =20 Instead of just throwing out various products and vendors = generically=97can you narrow down your goals a little? =20 =20 Thanks, =20 KJ (Ken) Salchow, Jr. | Manager, Technical Marketing D 651.423.1133 M 612.868.1258 P 206.272.5555 F 206.272.5555 <http://www.f5.com/> www.f5.com =20 =20 From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf = Of S. Stef=E1n Sigur=F0sson Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 5:28 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [load balancing] L7 packet inspection =20 Hi, my company wants to start doing packet L7 inspection on all traffic going through the load balancer. =20 Now my concern (cost aside) is how will I get the best performance = possible, ever ms counts. =20 We are currently using an Ace module to do our SLB and it has the = option of L7 inspect but will that perform any better than putting a good L7 = firewall in front of the ACE. =20 We are still just in the concept stage of this plan so any advice or = good idea would be greatly appreciated.. =20 S. 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= charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Wingdings; panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:Wingdings; panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph {mso-style-priority:34; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:.5in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:windowtext;} span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} span.EmailStyle19 {mso-style-type:personal; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} span.EmailStyle20 {mso-style-type:personal; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} span.EmailStyle21 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} /* List Definitions */ @list l0 {mso-list-id:1244487290; mso-list-type:hybrid; mso-list-template-ids:-148735920 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 = 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715;} @list l0:level1 {mso-level-tab-stop:none; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} ol {margin-bottom:0in;} ul {margin-bottom:0in;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Ok, that’s the = kind of detail that will help.=A0 Although, it looks like two discrete = issues:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 = level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span = style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Authentication of the data stream during play;<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 = level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span = style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Protecting = AAA services (which I assume are fairly straight-forward = web-auth).<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The second one is = more likely a perfect fit for traditional web application firewalls—because = there are very common web-based formats and services most likely being supported = (defined fields with specific URLs) and easy things like brute-force attack = prevention.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The first one, = however, depends a lot on how your service communicates (as Surya intimated).=A0 What = does a typical interaction look like and how would a modified one look?=A0 I’ve = never sniffed the traffic for a game like this—so I frankly have no idea = what this looks like.=A0 It sounds (looks) like you have some client = components which, while they probably talk over port 80 for getting through firewalls, = also probably aren’t http?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Of = course—I’m still a little fuzzy from jet-lag and I could be being completely obtuse; feel = free to let me know. </span><span = style=3D'font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D425 = style=3D'width:318.75pt'> <tr> <td colspan=3D5 style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>KJ (Ken) Salchow, Jr.</span></b><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> | Manager, Technical Marketing</span><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> </tr> <tr style=3D'height:9.0pt'> <td width=3D84 style=3D'width:63.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt = .75pt;height:9.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; line-height:9.0pt'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#333333'>D 651.423.1133</span></b><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New = Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> <td width=3D84 style=3D'width:63.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt = .75pt;height:9.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'line-height:9.0pt'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'>M = 612.868.1258</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> <td width=3D84 style=3D'width:63.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt = .75pt;height:9.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'line-height:9.0pt'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'>P = 206.272.5555</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> <td width=3D84 style=3D'width:63.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt = .75pt;height:9.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'line-height:9.0pt'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'>F = 206.272.5555</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> <td width=3D69 style=3D'width:51.75pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt = .75pt;height: 9.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'line-height:9.0pt'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'><a = href=3D"http://www.f5.com/"><span style=3D'color:#333333'>www.f5.com</span></a></span></b><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> </tr> </table> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt = 0in 0in 0in'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>S. Stef=E1n = Sigur=F0sson<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 28, 2010 4:53 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Load Balancing Mailing List<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [load balancing] L7 packet = inspection<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'>We are running MMO you may have heard of <a = href=3D"http://www.eveonline.com">www.eveonline.com</a>, now our servers are spending a allot of power = investigating/authenticating traffic to make sure users are not modifying their clients, trying sending = inject their own commands or trying to hack account. We are looking into = handing some of that work over to the SLB or the network in front. Currently we are = just trying to see what options we have and we don’t have any defined = needs, we may even reprogram some of our code to fit the L7 capabilities. Only thing I can say for sure is that any increase in = latency is really bad for us.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DIS = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DIS = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DIS = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DIS = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DIS = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DIS = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt = 0in 0in 0in'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> [email protected] = [mailto:[email protected]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Kenneth Salchow<br> <b>Sent:</b> 27. jan=FAar 2010 20:35<br> <b>To:</b> Load Balancing Mailing List<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [load balancing] L7 packet = inspection<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span = lang=3DIS><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sorry for delayed response—was having too much fun in Europe. = </span><span style=3D'font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Par usual, Ed, Tony and (increasingly) Surya have covered a lot of the bases here—what they didn’t specifically call out, but intimated, = is that you really didn’t specify *<b>what</b>* you want to do at = L7. That’s a HUGE determination in what you look for and who you but = it from. The products, prices and capabilities range quite widely—heck, = even here at F5 we have several different capabilities from the basic L7 = capability in the ADC, to a protocol enforcement product to a full-fledged application firewall. Which solution makes the most sense totally depends on = what you want to do.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Instead of just throwing out various products and vendors generically—can = you narrow down your goals a little? <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D425 = style=3D'width:318.75pt; margin-left:.5in'> <tr> <td colspan=3D5 style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>KJ (Ken) Salchow, Jr.</span></b><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> | Manager, Technical Marketing</span><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> </tr> <tr style=3D'height:9.0pt'> <td width=3D86 style=3D'width:64.25pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt = .75pt;height: 9.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; line-height:9.0pt'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#333333'>D 651.423.1133</span></b><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New = Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> <td width=3D86 style=3D'width:64.25pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt = .75pt;height: 9.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'line-height:9.0pt'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'>M = 612.868.1258</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> <td width=3D86 style=3D'width:64.25pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt = .75pt;height: 9.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'line-height:9.0pt'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'>P = 206.272.5555</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> <td width=3D86 style=3D'width:64.25pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt = .75pt;height: 9.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'line-height:9.0pt'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'>F = 206.272.5555</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> <td width=3D70 style=3D'width:52.75pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt = .75pt;height: 9.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'line-height:9.0pt'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'><a = href=3D"http://www.f5.com/"><span style=3D'color:#333333'>www.f5.com</span></a></span></b><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> </tr> </table> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt = 0in 0in 0in'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>S. Stef=E1n = Sigur=F0sson<br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 22, 2010 5:28 AM<br> <b>To:</b> [email protected]<br> <b>Subject:</b> [load balancing] L7 packet = inspection<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>Hi, my company wants to = start doing packet L7 inspection on all traffic going through the load = balancer.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>Now <span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'>m</span>y concern (cost aside) is how will I get the best performance possible, = ever ms counts.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>We are currently = using an Ace module to do our SLB and it has the option of L7 inspect but will = that perform any better than putting a good L7 firewall in front of the = ACE.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>We are still just in = the concept stage of this plan so any advice or good idea would be greatly = appreciated..<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span = lang=3DIS><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span lang=3DIS>S. = Stefan <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_001_001F_01CAA00B.754326E0-- ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CAA00B.754326E0 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; 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