Re: [AM] The Spiral Model

I see - you are talking about implementations of it that you've seen.

I should have clarified.  I'm refering to the main concept of Spiral, which
is for the purpose of evolutionary development.  What is being taught about
Spiral today does not refer to specific implementations, but rather as
methodological concept. (i.e. Sommerville 2001; SWEBOK)

However, I was abstracting it perhaps a bit more and applying it to Agile,
seeing that each main section of a single spiral iteration is accomplished
in some for with Agile methods.

Mark

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Gordon" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 6:24 PM
Subject: RE: [AM] The Spiral Model


> XP requires compression down to time periods on the order of a week or
two, whereas I believe Spiral does not.  This makes a big difference.
>
> If you do timebox Spiral down to software deliveries on the order of a few
weeks, you still have several supporting practices to add before you would
have XP.  But, whether you would have agility depends more on attitude and
flexibility than these additional practices.
>
> Before the emergence of RUP, I believe most real world implementations of
Spiral really did prototyping in the first phase and then normal waterfall
in the second phase, in order to reduce the risk of going straight to normal
waterfall. Now, I would say the vast majority of Spiral projects are RUP.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 5:12 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [AM] The Spiral Model
>
>
> Steve,
>
> Oh how often we get stuck on terms - it is often just,
> simply one term versus another, and what meaning is
> attributed to each that is different for each of us.
> There is obviously something about the term Spiral you
> don't like.  Otherwise, your last paragraph discerns no
> difference between one use of Spiral, and XP, although
> you say it only approaches agility.
>
> Is your statement an attempt to "protect" XP or
> agility, or is there something more to your last
> paragraph?
>
> The fundamental precepts behind the Spiral method are
> identical to Agile and even XP.  Isn't it possible that
> Agile concepts found something that is fundamental,
> underlying a successful project that was found before -
> and now we are splitting hair over terms?  Please tell
> me I'm wrong.
>
> Prove me wrong - that is - prove. ;)
>
> Mark
>
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:11:20 -0700, Steven Gordon wrote:
>
> >
> > In a typical XP or Scrum project, the customer can
> > expect working software with some business
> > functionality every few weeks, including within the
> > very first month.  In a Spiral project, the amount of
> > time spent on requirements, analysis, design and
> > architecture prior to producing the first software
> > deliverable with any business functionality could be
> > much longer than one month.
> >
> > If you take Spiral to the extreme that you build some
> > new business functionality every few weeks, then you
> > would be approaching agility.  This would end up
> > forcing us to focus on only a few features.  The
> > requirements, analysis, design, implementation, and
> > testing phases would become so short and focussed that
> > they become seamlessly integrated work done by the
> > whole team rather than being distinct phases done by
> > different people.  The shortened time frame would also
> > makes it possible to directly communicate and
> > collaborate on the current focus now until it is done
> > (instead of communicating via documents so we do not
> > forgot what was supposed to be implemented or tested
> > when somebody else gets to it some time later).
> >
> > Steven A. Gordon, Ph.D.
> > Manager, Software Factory
> > Arizona State University
> > PO Box 875506
> > Tempe, AZ 85287-9509
> > http://sf.asu.edu
> > (480)-727-6271
> >
> >
> > guillermo camilo wrote:
> >
> > > hi everybody
> > > after  a list of readings about this subject , the
> > spiral model for software
> > > developer (of dr Barry Boehm), i got one question
> > > i hope, despite, you maybe found it obvious, all of
> > you, wouldn't bother to
> > > help me to find the answer
> > >
> > > What is the main differences between the spiral
> > model's concepts and the
> > > core of the agile methodologies???
> > >
> > > i see both of them are , in essence, iterative and
> > incremental, so. how are
> > > we going to differentiate them?
> >
> > For more information about AM, visit the Agile
> Modeling
> > Home Page at www.agilemodeling.com
> >
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at
> the same level of thinking we were at when we created
> them." - Albert Einstein
>
> For more information about AM, visit the Agile Modeling Home Page at
www.agilemodeling.com
>
> For more information about AM, visit the Agile Modeling Home Page at
www.agilemodeling.com
>
>
>

For more information about AM, visit the Agile Modeling Home Page at www.agilemodeling.com
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