Re: Pragmatic Requirements Summary : update

--- In [email protected], "Aryeh M. Friedman" <aryeh@m...> 
wrote: 
> > Could I (as a newbie/outsider) ask for clarification, or is it 
> > premature? 
> >  
> > --- In [email protected], "Aryeh M. Friedman" 
> > <[email protected]> wrote: 
> > > ... 
> > > 1) How to seperate code from data in a clean generic paradigm 
> > > neutral manner 
> > > 
> >  
> > Why?  One of the nicer aspects of LISP and FORTH (and Perl, Python, 
> > and even xBase) is the ability to construct code on the fly and 
> > evaluate the constructed code/expressions within the current 
> > computation.  Admittedly this is not for beginners, but is a very 
> > powerful (pragmatic ;-) tool for some purposes.  Introspection is 
> > another such tool that blurs the code/data boundary. 
>  
> 	Introspection/reflection/whatever is looking at the metadata 
> for the code not the code it self... I think a brian storming session tonight 
> should resolve much of this (at least at the philosphical if not "praticle" 
> level [in the case of language design there is not much difference]). 
 
 You have not used Lisp or Forth. In these langauges you *are* looking at and 
manipulating the code, not metadata contained in some type of meta data 
structure. In these langauges the code is not tied so tightly to the hardware as 
it may be in C/C++ etc. 
 
>  
> > to the FORTH tradition again) might opt for the smallest possible 
> > core language, with all of the rest implemented as "high-level" 
> > definitions/extensions, while a performance-tuned implementation 
> > might opt for highly-tweaked versions of many of the so-called 
> > higher features.  This provokes me to the question: 
>  
> 	If properally designed/implimented this should be invisible 
> to the designer. 
 
Invisible to he designer or the developer? 
>  
> >   Wouldn't it be better to have a precise definition of the 
> >   notation and semantics of language features and leave it to 
> >   the discretion of the implementor(s) how to make the 
> >   bootstrap-versus-performance tradeoffs? 
>  
> 	Depends on the area your addressing there are no absulutes 
> including this statement. 
 
 I tend to agree with the original poster, but this is a continuation of our current and 
long running argument. 
>  
> 	--Aryeh 


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