Re: What is agile?

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 BTW, the answer to "What is Agile" is answered eloquently by one of the si=
gners of the original manifesto here:=C2=A0=C2=A0GOTO 2015 =E2=80=A2 Agile =
is Dead =E2=80=A2 Pragmatic Dave Thomas

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GOTO 2015 =E2=80=A2 Agile is Dead =E2=80=A2 Pragmatic Dave Thomas

This pre=
sentation was recorded at GOTO Amsterdam 2015 http://gotoams.nl Pragmatic D=
ave Thomas - Pragmatic Progra...
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    On Wednesday, May 2, 20=
18, 9:13:12 PM EDT, Michael Wollin [email protected] [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <=
[email protected]> wrote:  
 
 =C2=A0   
Fair enough, Dave.=
=C2=A0This was not to replace the Manifesto or for training in any way. Thi=
s was to explain to professional friends what we are doing, in simple busin=
ess terms. It=E2=80=99s my distillation. As a distillation, it=E2=80=99s a =
lossy compression algorithm. But I thought it communicated the nature of th=
e domain in a way that many professionals I know can easily grasp. I=E2=80=
=99m not sure, though, that I agree with you that the implications of the M=
anifesto are obvious. If that were true, the glaring delta between the mani=
festo and what most companies are really doing wrote be a whole lot more ap=
parent to them. IMO. I like the phrasing you have of =E2=80=9Cworking softw=
are to interact with,=E2=80=9D and I may incorporate that. It is still peop=
le collaborating to discover what the product wants to be.=C2=A0



On May =
2, 2018, at 9:15 AM, [email protected] [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <SCRUMDEVELO=
[email protected]> wrote:

I'm struggling to see value in this definiti=
on beyond the content contained in the two pages on Agile Manifesto website=
...=C2=A0 I had to go back and look at it, which I recommend that everyone do=
 from time to time, and it really does seem complete and clear even after a=
ll of these years.=C2=A0=C2=A0




Items that aren't included on the Manife=
sto site, like "creating cross-functional teams", aren't really part of Agi=
le, IMHO. =C2=A0 This one in particular seems like a bit of a pipe dream, r=
eally.=C2=A0 People aren't fungible resources and shouldn't be organized li=
ke they are.=C2=A0 And, surely the principle that, "The best architectures,=
 requirements, and designs emerge from self-organizing teams.", would win o=
ut if the team decided that it wanted to work in a very siloed manner?




=

I'm not trying to be hyper-critical, but one of the big issues we have in =
the Agile/Scrum world seems be competing definitions about fundamental conc=
epts.=C2=A0 Here we have 4 main clauses in the Manifesto, and 12 underlying=
 principles.=C2=A0 It's short, simple and the implications are fairly obvio=
us.

If there was one explanatory item that I'd ever feel was needed it wou=
ld be this:=C2=A0 Users never really fully engage in the software design pr=
ocess until you give them working software to interact with.=C2=A0 Requirem=
ents, white-board diagrams, meetings, demos, mock-ups, prototypes or any ot=
her aid you can try will not elicit the input that you need from the custom=
er to build the right software.=C2=A0 The only defense against this is writ=
e a minimal amount of working software and get it into the customers hands =
as soon as possible, then listen to what they say.

It's clear to me that t=
he authors of=C2=A0 the manifesto completely understood this.=C2=A0 The fir=
st 4 principles are all about making that happen.

dave
\

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<div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font=
-size:13px;"><div></div>
            <div>BTW, the answer to "What is Agile" is answered eloquently =
by one of the signers of the original manifesto here:&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D=
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Da-BOSpxYJ9M" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"=
_blank" class=3D"enhancr_card_6045993708">GOTO 2015 =E2=80=A2 Agile is Dead=
 =E2=80=A2 Pragmatic Dave Thomas</a></div><div><br></div><div id=3D"ydp5bc9=
1b7aenhancr_card_6045993708" class=3D"ydp5bc91b7ayahoo-link-enhancr-card yd=
p5bc91b7aymail-preserve-class ydp5bc91b7aymail-preserve-style" style=3D"max=
-width:400px;font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, =
Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" data-url=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
=3Da-BOSpxYJ9M" data-embed-url=3D"https://www.youtube.com/embed/a-BOSpxYJ9M=
" data-type=3D"YENHANCER" data-size=3D"MEDIUM" contenteditable=3D"false"><a=
 href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Da-BOSpxYJ9M" style=3D"text-decor=
ation:none !important;color:#000 !important;" class=3D"ydp5bc91b7ayahoo-enh=
ancr-cardlink" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"><table border=3D"0" class=
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ht=3D"175" style=3D"background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-size: cover;=
 position: relative; border-radius: 2px 2px 0px 0px; min-height: 175px;"><!=
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/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png" height=3D"36" style=3D"min-wi=
dth:36px;margin-top:3px;"></td><td style=3D"vertical-align:middle;padding:1=
2px 24px 16px 12px;width:99%;font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;=
Segoe UI&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;border-radius:0 0 2px 0;"><h2 =
class=3D"ydp5bc91b7acard-title" style=3D"font-size: 14px; line-height: 19px=
; margin: 0px 0px 6px; font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Segoe=
 UI&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, 42);">GOTO 2015=
 =E2=80=A2 Agile is Dead =E2=80=A2 Pragmatic Dave Thomas</h2><p class=3D"yd=
p5bc91b7acard-description" style=3D"font-size: 12px; line-height: 16px; mar=
gin: 0px; color: rgb(151, 155, 167);">This presentation was recorded at GOT=
O Amsterdam 2015 http://gotoams.nl Pragmatic Dave Thomas - Pragmatic Progra=
....</p></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbod=
y></table></a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
            <div id=3D"yahoo_quoted_6253498776" class=3D"yahoo_quoted">
                <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Aria=
l, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
                    <div>
                        On Wednesday, May 2, 2018, 9:13:12 PM EDT, Michael =
Wollin [email protected] [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] &lt;SCRUMDEVELOPMENT@yahoogro=
ups.com&gt; wrote:
                    </div>
                    <div><br></div>
                    <div><br></div>
                    <div><div id=3D"yiv4433192394"><div>
<span style=3D"display:none;">&nbsp;</span>


<div id=3D"yiv4433192394ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"position:relative;">
  <div id=3D"yiv4433192394ygrp-msg" style=3D"z-index:1;">


    <div id=3D"yiv4433192394ygrp-text">
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
      <p>Fair enough, Dave.&nbsp;This was not to replace the Manifesto or f=
or training in any way. This was to explain to professional friends what we=
 are doing, in simple business terms. It=E2=80=99s my distillation. As a di=
stillation, it=E2=80=99s a lossy compression algorithm. But I thought it co=
mmunicated the nature of the domain in a way that many professionals I know=
 can easily grasp. I=E2=80=99m not sure, though, that I agree with you that=
 the implications of the Manifesto are obvious. If that were true, the glar=
ing delta between the manifesto and what most companies are really doing wr=
ote be a whole lot more apparent to them. IMO. I like the phrasing you have=
 of =E2=80=9Cworking software to interact with,=E2=80=9D and I may incorpor=
ate that. It is still people collaborating to discover what the product wan=
ts to be.&nbsp;</p><div class=3D"yiv4433192394class"><br clear=3D"none" cla=
ss=3D"yiv4433192394class"><div><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv4433192394cla=
ss"><div class=3D"yiv4433192394yqt6804655726" id=3D"yiv4433192394yqt98415">=
<blockquote class=3D"yiv4433192394class" type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"yiv443=
3192394class">On May 2, 2018, at 9:15 AM, <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect=
" class=3D"yiv4433192394class" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email protected]" ta=
rget=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">dave.barrett@lawpro.=
ca</a> [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"y=
iv4433192394class" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email protected]" targ=
et=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">SCRUMDEVELOP=
[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv443=
3192394Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"yiv4433192394class"><div cl=
ass=3D"yiv4433192394class" id=3D"yiv4433192394ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"font-siz=
e:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;font-style:normal;fo=
nt-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;=
white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;"><div class=3D"yiv4433192394class" id=
=3D"yiv4433192394ygrp-msg"><div class=3D"yiv4433192394class" id=3D"yiv44331=
92394ygrp-text" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);font-family:Ge=
orgia;"><p class=3D"yiv4433192394class" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 1em;">I'm s=
truggling to see value in this definition beyond the content contained in t=
he two pages on Agile Manifesto website.&nbsp; I had to go back and look at=
 it, which I recommend that everyone do from time to time, and it really do=
es seem complete and clear even after all of these years.&nbsp;<span class=
=3D"yiv4433192394Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></p></div></div></div>=
</div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"yiv4433192394class" type=3D"cite"><=
div class=3D"yiv4433192394class"><div class=3D"yiv4433192394class" id=3D"yi=
v4433192394ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica=
, clean, sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:nor=
mal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px=
;"><div class=3D"yiv4433192394class" id=3D"yiv4433192394ygrp-msg"><div clas=
s=3D"yiv4433192394class" id=3D"yiv4433192394ygrp-text" style=3D"background-=
color:rgb(255, 255, 255);font-family:Georgia;"><p class=3D"yiv4433192394cla=
ss" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 1em;"><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv4433192394=
class">Items that aren't included on the Manifesto site, like "creating cro=
ss-functional teams", aren't really part of Agile, IMHO. &nbsp; This one in=
 particular seems like a bit of a pipe dream, really.&nbsp; People aren't f=
ungible resources and shouldn't be organized like they are.&nbsp; And, sure=
ly the principle that, "The best architectures, requirements, and designs e=
merge from self-organizing teams.", would win out if the team decided that =
it wanted to work in a very siloed manner?<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv44=
33192394class"></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"yiv4433192394class" type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"yiv4433192394class"=
><div class=3D"yiv4433192394class" id=3D"yiv4433192394ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"=
font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;font-style:n=
ormal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transfo=
rm:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;"><div class=3D"yiv4433192394cl=
ass" id=3D"yiv4433192394ygrp-msg"><div class=3D"yiv4433192394yqt6804655726"=
 id=3D"yiv4433192394yqt52516"><div class=3D"yiv4433192394class" id=3D"yiv44=
33192394ygrp-text" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);font-family=
:Georgia;"><p class=3D"yiv4433192394class" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 1em;"><b=
r clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv4433192394class">I'm not trying to be hyper-cr=
itical, but one of the big issues we have in the Agile/Scrum world seems be=
 competing definitions about fundamental concepts.&nbsp; Here we have 4 mai=
n clauses in the Manifesto, and 12 underlying principles.&nbsp; It's short,=
 simple and the implications are fairly obvious.<br clear=3D"none" class=3D=
"yiv4433192394class"><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv4433192394class">If the=
re was one explanatory item that I'd ever feel was needed it would be this:=
&nbsp; Users never really fully engage in the software design process until=
 you give them working software to interact with.&nbsp; Requirements, white=
-board diagrams, meetings, demos, mock-ups, prototypes or any other aid you=
 can try will not elicit the input that you need from the customer to build=
 the right software.&nbsp; The only defense against this is write a minimal=
 amount of working software and get it into the customers hands as soon as =
possible, then listen to what they say.<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv44331=
92394class"><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv4433192394class">It's clear to m=
e that the authors of&nbsp; the manifesto completely understood this.&nbsp;=
 The first 4 principles are all about making that happen.<br clear=3D"none"=
 class=3D"yiv4433192394class"><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv4433192394clas=
s">dave</p></div></div><div class=3D"yiv4433192394class" style=3D"min-heigh=
t:0px;"><span class=3D"yiv4433192394class" style=3D"color:rgb(255, 255, 255=
);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"></span><font class=3D"yiv4433192394=
class" color=3D"#e3e3e3"><span class=3D"yiv4433192394class" style=3D"backgr=
ound-color:rgb(227, 227, 227);">\</span></font></div><div class=3D"yiv44331=
92394class" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"></div></div></di=
v></div></blockquote></div><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv4433192394class">=
</div>

    </div>
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