Re: [MPEGIF Discuss] [systems] [discussion] Who framed MPEG-4 withinH264 ?
"Cyril Fombonne" <[email protected]> Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:57:34 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.video.mpeg4.general |
|---|---|
| Organization | ATEME |
| Message-ID | <0a4801c4a645$6ac5d200$c41010ac@pc196> |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============53355655414554903== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0A45_01C4A656.2E477610" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0A45_01C4A656.2E477610 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Igino, This would be true if Nero Digital(tm) did not exist.=20 Nero Digital(tm) is the brand name that encompasses MPEG-4 Audio, MPEG-4 = Video and MPEG-4 System parts of the ISO 14496.=20 Regarding the specs, this is really a global MPEG-4 implementation with = some more extended features. That means that it brings all flavours of = crispy AAC (LC, HE) sound with all system features such as MP4 file with = chapter marks, multiple subtitles, multiple audio tracks. Now moving to technology. All the above mentionned features are existing = now and IC manufacturers already start to embedd the technology. Ateme, = co-developper of Nero Digital with Ahead Software, has it all for you to = deploy devices, including full documentation and licensing schemes. Now try the first tool featuring Nero Digital(tm) : Nero Recode 2 = (encode any content to Nero Digital file). This is the best performing = tool to date on the encoding side. Speed benchmarks confirm this, at = equal quality / set of parameters. The easiness is also emphasised. And = above all, Nero Digital relies on a very large community of users = creating content every day, and potentially creating a pull for embedded = STBs / players. I hope you got the message and that everyone will keep pushing MPEG-4 = Video but also Audio and System as it proves himself to be simply the = best technology for quality at lowest bitrates. Cyril Fombonne Product Manager Tel: +33 1 69 35 89 88 Fax: +33 1 60 19 13 95 www.ateme.com Nero Digital - Watch. Listen. Experience. www.nerodigital.com =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: igino manfre'=20 To: mp4-tech-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected] ; discuss-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 7:26 PM Subject: [MPEGIF Discuss] [systems] [discussion] Who framed MPEG-4 = withinH264 ? Hi people, It seems me that we are forgetting that MPEG-4 is NOT ONLY a visual compression scheme. Really it is all but BUT NOT ONLY a visual compression scheme. I presume you all agree. If we consider the subjects of this newsgroup, in the last two-three = years the focus migrates from the visual (who was in or out MPEG-4) to the = MPEG-LA licensing schemes (that could better defined "mpeg-4 suicide") and = again back to the visual (h264). It can be also felt a growing interest from = India and far east. In this landscape, I find almost no mail related to the "system" of = MPEG-4, and I do not think because they are better explained. Two years ago there had been a lot of development of SDKs and = authoring systems in the area, many of which used to work (even fine). Probably = all these have been commercial flops since now at the exhibitions no-one = is more pushing fully MPEG-4 based solutions. All and only H264. Does it means = that MPEG-4 (in its complex) is dead ? Really, for what I know, excluding the many experiments and demo = targeted to demostrate the power of object encoding and multiplexing within MPEG-4 systems (meanly two-three years old), I do not know any "true" (i.e. marketable) application of "true" MPEG-4 after the part "-2". Today the entire world is fashioned by H264. Its astonishing 2-3 Mbps = 720P video will probably be the first "true" MPEG-4 part really diffused on = the Earth. All the broadcast encoder manufacturer are today able to show = their h264 solution... But the broadcast usage will probably be a terrible mix of H264 ES = video & MP3 or AC3 audio over MPEG-2 transport. The goal is to "squeeze" = enough the required bandwidth to allow the deploiment of high definition TV over = cable modem. To make this mix dirtier, probably these broadcast will carry = OCAP or MHP/OpenTV interactivity. Does not it sound a little blasfeme ? What do you think about ? The diffusion of MPEG-2 STB is not a key factor, since the current = STBs must be replaced in any case to decompress the H264. But a STB that will be = able to decode H264 could have enough computational power to implement the = entire standard. Really it is an architectural problem since if the entire decoder will = be put in a dice of silicon any further expansion could not be = possible... An observation I expect is that as "the market trains the research", = as well it trains the newsgroups. But maybe the locomotives (or who designs = the railways) do not sufficiently know what COULD be available... Are we really sure to have done the right work ? Best regards, Igino Manfre' ----------------------- Igino Manfre' - [email protected] Broadcast Video Consultant Mobile (+39) 3358235346 Home (+39) 0650916416 13, Largo Nearco I 00124 ROMA - ITALY _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected] http://lists.mpegif.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust = guidelines found at = http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php ------=_NextPart_000_0A45_01C4A656.2E477610 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hello Igino,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>This would be true if Nero Digital(tm) did not = exist.=20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Nero Digital(tm) is the brand name that=20 encompasses MPEG-4 Audio, MPEG-4 Video and MPEG-4 System parts of = the ISO=20 14496. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Regarding the specs, this is really a=20 global MPEG-4 implementation with some more extended features. = That=20 means that it brings all flavours of crispy AAC (LC, HE) sound = with all system features such as MP4 file with chapter marks, = multiple=20 subtitles, multiple audio tracks.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Now moving to technology. All the above mentionned = features=20 are existing now and IC manufacturers already start to embedd the = technology.=20 Ateme, co-developper of Nero Digital with Ahead Software, has it all for = you to=20 deploy devices, including full documentation and licensing = schemes.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Now try the first tool featuring Nero Digital(tm) : = Nero=20 Recode 2 (encode any content to Nero Digital file). This is the best = performing=20 tool to date on the encoding side. Speed benchmarks confirm this, at = equal=20 quality / set of parameters. The easiness is also emphasised. And = above=20 all, Nero Digital relies on a very large community of users creating = content=20 every day, and potentially creating a pull for embedded STBs /=20 players.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I hope you got the message and that everyone will = keep pushing=20 MPEG-4 Video but also Audio and System as it proves himself to be simply = the=20 best technology for quality at lowest bitrates.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Cyril Fombonne<BR>Product Manager</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Tel: +33 1 69 35 89 88<BR>Fax: +33 1 60 19 13 = 95<BR><A=20 href=3D"http://www.ateme.com">www.ateme.com</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Nero Digital - Watch. Listen. Experience.<BR><A=20 href=3D"http://www.nerodigital.com">www.nerodigital.com</A></FONT></DIV><= /FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A [email protected] = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">igino=20 manfre'</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dmp4-tech-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]=20 = href=3D"mailto:mp4-tech-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]">mp4-tech-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]</A> = ; <A=20 title=3Ddiscuss-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]=20 href=3D"mailto:discuss-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]">discuss-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 28, = 2004 7:26=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [MPEGIF Discuss] = [systems]=20 [discussion] Who framed MPEG-4 withinH264 ?</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>Hi people,<BR><BR>It seems me = that we are=20 forgetting that MPEG-4 is NOT ONLY a visual<BR>compression = scheme.<BR>Really=20 it is all but BUT NOT ONLY a visual compression scheme.<BR><BR>I = presume you=20 all agree.<BR><BR>If we consider the subjects of this newsgroup, in = the last=20 two-three years<BR>the focus migrates from the visual (who was in or = out=20 MPEG-4) to the MPEG-LA<BR>licensing schemes (that could better defined = "mpeg-4=20 suicide") and again<BR>back to the visual (h264). It can be also felt = a=20 growing interest from India<BR>and far east.<BR><BR>In this landscape, = I find=20 almost no mail related to the "system" of MPEG-4,<BR>and I do not = think=20 because they are better explained.<BR><BR>Two years ago there had been = a lot=20 of development of SDKs and authoring<BR>systems in the area, many of = which=20 used to work (even fine). Probably all<BR>these have been commercial = flops=20 since now at the exhibitions no-one is more<BR>pushing fully MPEG-4 = based=20 solutions. All and only H264. Does it means that<BR>MPEG-4 (in its = complex) is=20 dead ?<BR><BR>Really, for what I know, excluding the many experiments = and demo=20 targeted to<BR>demostrate the power of object encoding and = multiplexing within=20 MPEG-4<BR>systems (meanly two-three years old), I do not know any = "true"=20 (i.e.<BR>marketable) application of "true" MPEG-4 after the part=20 "-2".<BR><BR>Today the entire world is fashioned by H264. Its = astonishing 2-3=20 Mbps 720P<BR>video will probably be the first "true" MPEG-4 part = really=20 diffused on the<BR>Earth. All the broadcast encoder manufacturer are = today=20 able to show their<BR>h264 solution...<BR><BR>But the broadcast usage = will=20 probably be a terrible mix of H264 ES video &<BR>MP3 or AC3 audio = over=20 MPEG-2 transport. The goal is to "squeeze" enough the<BR>required = bandwidth to=20 allow the deploiment of high definition TV over cable<BR>modem. To = make this=20 mix dirtier, probably these broadcast will carry OCAP or<BR>MHP/OpenTV = interactivity.<BR><BR>Does not it sound a little blasfeme ? What do = you think=20 about ?<BR><BR>The diffusion of MPEG-2 STB is not a key factor, since = the=20 current STBs must<BR>be replaced in any case to decompress the H264. = But a STB=20 that will be able<BR>to decode H264 could have enough computational = power to=20 implement the entire<BR>standard.<BR><BR>Really it is an architectural = problem=20 since if the entire decoder will be<BR>put in a dice of silicon any = further=20 expansion could not be possible...<BR><BR>An observation I expect is = that as=20 "the market trains the research", as well<BR>it trains the newsgroups. = But=20 maybe the locomotives (or who designs the<BR>railways) do not = sufficiently=20 know what COULD be available...<BR><BR>Are we really sure to have done = the=20 right work ?<BR><BR>Best regards, Igino=20 Manfre'<BR><BR>-----------------------<BR><BR>Igino Manfre' - <A = = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A><BR>Br= oadcast=20 Video Consultant<BR>Mobile (+39) 3358235346<BR>Home (+39)=20 0650916416<BR>13, Largo Nearco<BR>I 00124 ROMA -=20 = ITALY<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Discuss=20 mailing list<BR><A=20 = href=3D"mailto:Discuss-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]">Discuss-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]</A><BR>= <A=20 = href=3D"http://lists.mpegif.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.mp= egif.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</A><BR><BR>Note:=20 Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines = found at <A=20 = href=3D"http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitru= st.php">http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitru= st.php</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0A45_01C4A656.2E477610-- --===============53355655414554903== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected] http://lists.mpegif.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php --===============53355655414554903==--