Re: Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit
Chris Cox <[email protected]> Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:00:55 -0700
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.video.openexr.user |
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| Message-ID | <C64EE3A7.802A0%[email protected]> |
--===============1571738679== Content-Language: en Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C64EE3A7802A0ccoxadobecom_" --_000_C64EE3A7802A0ccoxadobecom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Again, Photoshop is a straight color application - there is no such thing a= s color values when the opacity is zero. PNG is also well defined in it's behavior - and behaves exactly as the file= format specification says it must. TIFF can support alpha channels (which can contain anything) AND transparen= cy/opacity channels. It sounds like you have these confused. Chris On 6/5/09 10:14 AM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Chris, Maybe I didn't explain this well enough. There really is a couple of iss= ues here. So to explain further, I have an EXR file rendered out of 3DStud= io in a HDR scene. The scene is a landscape with buildings, hills, and a s= ky. The hills and buildings have an alpha of 1.0, the sky has an alpha of = 0.0. The RGB information is not limited to a 0.0 - 1.0 range... there are= some color values that go up into the 5.0-8.0 range (for example bright re= flections on the windows, and the color of the clouds in the sky). If I use the default EXR plugin in CS4 it creates an RGB/32 document, but= the sky comes in 100% transparent. This is great if I don't need the sky,= but there is color data for the sky in the EXR file. The sky is blue and = there are white clouds. In After Effects I can alter the way it deals with= the alpha, and I have the choice to ignore the alpha if I so choose. In Ph= otoshop there are no options to do this. The EXR plugin is not the only on= e that does this. The PNG plugin for example also discards all color data = where the alpha is 0.0. The TIFF plugin on the other hand puts the alpha i= nformation into a sepperate channel. I can then choose to use that alpha h= owever I wish. Sometimes it's nice to have the alpha pre-composited with t= he RGB data the way the PNG/EXR plugin works, but it would also be nice to = have an option somewhere that modifies how Photoshop deals with alpha in an= image. I would love an option in the main program settings that globally = modified how all image importers dealt with the Alpha. Now if I use the plugin on the OpenEXR website, it brings up a dialog whe= re I can choose to Un-Premultiply, I can change the Gamma, and I can alter = the Exposure. It also places the alpha into a sepperate channel like the w= ay the TIFF plugin works. I can see my sky and I have my alpha in a sepper= ate channel so that I can do with it what I please. The two problems I hav= e with this plugin is that; 1) It creates an RGB/16 document instead of a R= GB/32 which clamps the RGB values and leaves me stuck with the gamma/exposu= re settings I selected during import, and 2) There is no 64bit version of t= he plugin. To recap, the default EXR plugin needs a user control for how it deals wi= th the alpha, and the OpenEXR plugin needs to open the image as a RGB/32 so= that it does not clamp the color values. I hope this posting is more clear. -Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Cox" <[email protected]> To: [email protected], [email protected] Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:37:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit Ray; Photoshop is a straight color application, and OpenEXR is defined as being = premultiplied. This means that OpenEXR data has to be un-multiplied by the= transparency/opacity values to work in Photoshop. To a straight color app= lication, there is no meaning to color values when the opacity is zero. If= the opacity is non-zero, then the color values are there - just un-multip= lied so they will composite correctly. Photoshop already handles the EXR "A" channel (defined in the spec as opaci= ty/transparency data) correctly - it opens it as opacity/transparency. What the Photoshop EXR plugin does not do is give you a way to open the tra= nsparency channel as an arbitrary alpha channel, or to open channels other = than RGBA. I'm sorry I don't have a solution for you, but your post sounded like you w= ere confused about the terminology and what was happening to your data (eno= ugh so that I still don't know what's not working for you with the Photosho= p EXR plugin). Chris On 6/4/09 4:23 PM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: I'm working on a project that is rendering 32bit floating bit EXR files out= of 3DStudio. I'm then compiling these frames in After Effects in a 32 bit= floating point composite and it's all working fine. The problem I'm havin= g is that I also need to composite some scenes in Photoshop CS4, and the de= fault Photoshop EXR plugin is tossing out any data from the image that has = a transparent alpha. I found the Photoshop plugin on the OpenEXR website a= nd had hopes that it would do what I needed. Thankfully it knows how to ha= ndle the alpha channel properly, but unfortunately the plugin imports the i= mage into a 16bit integer document and any value above 1.0 is clipped. I c= an't use the exposure adjustment to access the over bright details. Becaus= e of these import problems I have to run each image through After Effects a= nd do the exposure processing there, then export an image to Photoshop. Can the maintainer of the OpenEXR photoshop plugin please recompile a new v= ersion that imports images into a 32bit document and maintain the full colo= r range, or provide exposure controls in the plugin? Also, I could use a 6= 4bit version of the plugin for the 64bit version of Photoshop. Thanks, Ray Collett -- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --=3D=3D-- Ray Collett --=3D=3D-- Technical Director; Newlands & Company Inc. www.nc3d.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _______________________________________________ Openexr-user mailing list [email protected] http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/openexr-user --_000_C64EE3A7802A0ccoxadobecom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <FONT FACE=3D"Myriad Pro"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:10pt'>Again, Photoshop i= s a straight color application – there is no such thing as color valu= es when the opacity is zero.<BR> <BR> PNG is also well defined in it’s behavior – and behaves exactly= as the file format specification says it must.<BR> TIFF can support alpha channels (which can contain anything) AND transparen= cy/opacity channels. It sounds like you have these confused.<BR> <BR> Chris<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> On 6/5/09 10:14 AM, "<a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a>" &= lt;<a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<BR> <BR> </SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"4"><FONT FACE=3D"Times New Roman"><= SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12pt'>Hi Chris,<BR> Maybe I didn't explain this well enough. There really is = a couple of issues here. So to explain further, I have an EXR file re= ndered out of 3DStudio in a HDR scene. The scene is a landscape with = buildings, hills, and a sky. The hills and buildings have an alpha of= 1.0, the sky has an alpha of 0.0. The RGB information is not limited= to a 0.0 - 1.0 range... there are some color values that go up into = the 5.0-8.0 range (for example bright reflections on the windows, and the c= olor of the clouds in the sky).<BR> <BR> If I use the default EXR plugin in CS4 it creates an RGB/32 doc= ument, but the sky comes in 100% transparent. This is great if I don'= t need the sky, but there is color data for the sky in the EXR file. = The sky is blue and there are white clouds. In After Effects I can al= ter the way it deals with the alpha, and I have the choice to ignore the al= pha if I so choose. In Photoshop there are no options to do this. The= EXR plugin is not the only one that does this. The PNG plugin for ex= ample also discards all color data where the alpha is 0.0. The TIFF p= lugin on the other hand puts the alpha information into a sepperate channel= . I can then choose to use that alpha however I wish. Sometimes= it's nice to have the alpha pre-composited with the RGB data the way the P= NG/EXR plugin works, but it would also be nice to have an option somewhere = that modifies how Photoshop deals with alpha in an image. I would lov= e an option in the main program settings that globally modified how all ima= ge importers dealt with the Alpha.<BR> <BR> Now if I use the plugin on the OpenEXR website, it brings up a = dialog where I can choose to Un-Premultiply, I can change the Gamma, and I = can alter the Exposure. It also places the alpha into a sepperate cha= nnel like the way the TIFF plugin works. I can see my sky and I have = my alpha in a sepperate channel so that I can do with it what I please. &nb= sp;The two problems I have with this plugin is that; 1) It creates an RGB/1= 6 document instead of a RGB/32 which clamps the RGB values and leaves me st= uck with the gamma/exposure settings I selected during import, and 2) There= is no 64bit version of the plugin.<BR> <BR> To recap, the default EXR plugin needs a user control for how i= t deals with the alpha, and the OpenEXR plugin needs to open the image as a= RGB/32 so that it does not clamp the color values.<BR> <BR> I hope this posting is more clear.<BR> <BR> -Ray<BR> <BR> ----- Original Message -----<BR> From: "Chris Cox" <<a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</= a>><BR> To: <a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a>, <a href=3D"openexr-user@nong= nu.org">[email protected]</a><BR> Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:37:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific<BR> Subject: Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit<BR> <BR> Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit </SPAN></FONT><= /FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Myriad Pro"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:10pt'>Ray;<BR> <BR> Photoshop is a straight color application, and OpenEXR is defined as being = premultiplied. This means that OpenEXR data has to be un-multiplied b= y the transparency/opacity values to work in Photoshop. To a straight= color application, there is no meaning to color values when the opacity is= zero. If the opacity is non-zero, then the color values are there - = just un-multiplied so they will composite correctly.<BR> <BR> Photoshop already handles the EXR “A” channel (defined in the s= pec as opacity/transparency data) correctly – it opens it as opacity/= transparency.<BR> What the Photoshop EXR plugin does not do is give you a way to open the tra= nsparency channel as an arbitrary alpha channel, or to open channels other = than RGBA.<BR> <BR> I’m sorry I don’t have a solution for you, but your post sounde= d like you were confused about the terminology and what was happening to yo= ur data (enough so that I still don’t know what’s not working f= or you with the Photoshop EXR plugin).<BR> <BR> Chris<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> On 6/4/09 4:23 PM, "<a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a>" &l= t;<a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<BR> <BR> </SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Myriad Pro"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-siz= e:10pt'>I'm working on a project that is rendering 32bit floating bit EXR f= iles out of 3DStudio. I'm then compiling these frames in After Effect= s in a 32 bit floating point composite and it's all working fine. The= problem I'm having is that I also need to composite some scenes in Photosh= op CS4, and the default Photoshop EXR plugin is tossing out any data from t= he image that has a transparent alpha. I found the Photoshop plugin o= n the OpenEXR website and had hopes that it would do what I needed. T= hankfully it knows how to handle the alpha channel properly, but unfortunat= ely the plugin imports the image into a 16bit integer document and any valu= e above 1.0 is clipped. I can't use the exposure adjustment to access= the over bright details. Because of these import problems I have to = run each image through After Effects and do the exposure processing there, = then export an image to Photoshop.<BR> <BR> Can the maintainer of the OpenEXR photoshop plugin please recompile a new v= ersion that imports images into a 32bit document and maintain the full colo= r range, or provide exposure controls in the plugin? Also, I could us= e a 64bit version of the plugin for the 64bit version of Photoshop.<BR> <BR> Thanks,<BR> Ray Collett<BR> <BR> --<BR> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR> --=3D=3D-- &nbs= p; Ray Collett &= nbsp; --=3D=3D--<BR> Technical Director; Newlands & Company Inc. www.nc3d.com<BR> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR> <BR> <BR> _______________________________________________<BR> Openexr-user mailing list<BR> <a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a><BR> <a href=3D"http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/openexr-user">http://li= sts.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/openexr-user</a><BR> <BR> </SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"4"><FONT FACE=3D"Times New Roman">= <SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12pt'><BR> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Myriad Pro"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:10p= t'><BR> </SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> </BODY> </HTML> --_000_C64EE3A7802A0ccoxadobecom_-- --===============1571738679== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Openexr-user mailing list [email protected] http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/openexr-user --===============1571738679==--