Re: Informal poll

pete rippe <[email protected]> wrote:
: i think the pg2 arch would be a good idea as i've seen a few people here
: talking about design problems with the original. Its possible to move on
: from the first, and just use it as an experiment to see what needs to be
: changed for a proper production gui.

On Tue, 15 Apr 2003, Chris Wright wrote:

:I have to second that.  While the first has had a lot of neat things, its
:primary purpose has perhaps been a learning exercise above all else.  The
:only problem with this is abandoning all the developers and companies who
:are using pg1 in production systems...  Is pg2 going to be such a radical
:change that nothing can be slavaged for them?

Well, I've been recently reading an old book - it's called "The Mythical
Man-Month", by Frederick Brooks. In it, as part of his statements, he quotes:
(/me goes and gets the book, just to make sure /me HAS the quote correct)
First, the summary, from Chapter 11:
Plan to throw one away, you probably will anyway

Now, the meat (Copyright (C) 1975 Frederick P. Brooks Jr.)
"In most projects, the first system built is barely usable.  It may be too
slow, too big, awkward to use, or all three.  There is no alternative but to
start again, smarting but smarter, and build a redesigned system in which
these problems are solved."

However, I am NOT suggesting that pg1 is "ususable", nor that it is "too big",
because I am not a coder.  It just seems a shame that the work that went into
pg1 is really only going to get turfed in the can, because as a RESULT of pg1,
pg2 will come about.

The chief problem comes in the regard of this "Second System" - Frederick
Brooks had this to say, back in Chapter 5:  The Second-System effect
... snip ...
The general tendency is to over-design the second system, using all the ideas
and frills that were cautiously sidetracked on the first one.  The result, as
Ovid says, is a "big pile".
... snip ...

So, let's keep in mind that famous phrase at the end of Micah's emails (at
least, the one he USED to have before he updated his .sig, that is 8-) 

"Only you can prevent creeping featurism!"

He also had this to say in another chapter: re-use.
Chapter 17 "No Silver Bullet" re-fired (1995)
Parnas writes,
  Reuse is something that is far easier to say than to do.  Doing it requires
	both good design and very good documentation. Even when we see good design,
	which is still infrequently, we won't see the components reused without good
	documentation.

... snip ...
So - lets see if we can get the documentation right.  I might take another cvs
co and see what state it's in, though there were mutterings about the cvs/svm
debate I haven't entirely caught up on yet.

:In any event, I look forward to playing with pg2, the sooner the better :)

Need I say more?
Yes - I suppose I do - lets encourage the "workers" as best we know how - and
no, I'm not talking about a pizza-party on each major release, though this
wouldn't be a bad idea either.  Not that I can exactly MAKE it... me being on
the other side of the world.

But That's about all I need to say - else this email will never get out the
door.

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