Re: Opera 24 for Linux released on Developer stream

Arjan van Leeuwen <[email protected]> Tue, 24 Jun 2014 17:57:31 +0200
Newsgroups gmane.comp.web.opera.linux
Message-ID <CACymD_io2-yYVSVdO7yZ3HMr+FhnbHXRHRL_VJJJVi0SLwp50Q@mail.gmail.com>
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Forgot to send this to the list! Replies in-line:

On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Arjan van Leeuwen <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi Neil,
>
> On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Neil R. Ormos <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Arjan van Leeuwen wrote:
>> ...
>>
>> > - Mouse gestures!
>> > - Speed Dial
>> > - Out-of-the-box HiDPI support
>> > - No automatic sign-in to google-everything
>>
>> Arjan:
>>
>> Thanks for your announcement here about the availability of Opera 24 for
>> Linux.
>>
>> Your short list above reminds me how widely divergent the reasons various
>> users prefer the "old" Opera over other browsers are.
>>
>> You mention mouse gestures and Speed Dial as among the most important
>> differentiators to you of Opera over Chrome.  While I never found either of
>> those traditional features of Opera to be especially compelling, I can
>> understand how others might.
>>
>
> Yes, the reasons can indeed be very diverse. One of the nice things about
> the new Opera is that the addons thing has really taken off, and a lot of
> features are now available as addons, allowing users to choose whether they
> want to work with certain functionality or not. In addition to Opera's
> addons (https://addons.opera.com/en/), Opera can also use Chrome
> extensions (see
> http://ruario.ghost.io/2014/03/04/extensions-highlight-extension-source-viewer/
> for more information).
>
> If your knee-jerk reaction is "I don't like extensions, they give bloat",
> remember that Opera's extensions are simply HTML and JavaScript that
> interact with web pages and a couple of Opera-specific APIs (similar to
> User Scripts in old Opera), not full-blown programs. And I would argue that
> thanks to them we in fact have a lot less bloat.
>
>
>>
>> What drew me to Opera initially (long, long ago) was its fast browsing
>> performance, clean UI, keyboard shortcuts, pop-up control, and the like.
>>
>> Over time, my priorities changed, and I highly valued such features as:
>>
>>    keyboard shortcuts (still!);
>>
>
> Opera has single-key shortcuts (turn on in opera://settings, it's called
> "Advanced keyboard shortcuts"), which might or might not be what you're
> referring to here. I know I personally don't use them, but some people
> can't do without them. There's an extension called 'vimium' that many
> people use to get vim-style keyboard shortcuts.
>
>
>>    "user mode" and image display control on the
>>    view toolbar;
>>
>
> This should help you:
> https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/no-css/?display=en
>
>
>>    easy access to delete private data and to
>>    disable javascript and plug-ins;
>>
>
> Delete private data is available from the main menu (and from the history
> view). Opera supports private windows as well. Javascript and plug-ins can
> both be configured to be disabled by default, and for both you can manage a
> whitelist with sites where you do want to enable them. For plug-ins, Opera
> also supports 'Click-to-play', which means plugin content is only enabled
> after it has been clicked by you (this is what I personally use).
>
>    extremely useful browsing history and links
>>    display;
>>
>
> I find the history view pretty useful (especially searching in it, which
> is very fast and something I regularly use), but of course I don't know
> what you found so useful about it before so it's hard to comment here :).
> There is no Links view in the new Opera, although this sounds like
> something that could be perfectly done using an addon (this is true for all
> features that gather content from web pages). I don't know if it exists
> yet, but it wouldn't surprise me.
>
>
>>    text-based bookmarks and session files (which I
>>    can process outside of Opera with simple
>>    tools); and
>>
>
> Opera inherits sqlite-based data files from Chromium. They are not
> text-based, but they are in an open, wide-spread format and quite easy to
> process outside of Opera, using the sqlite command-line client from scripts
> or any of the available libraries if you're writing in a more advanced
> programming language.
>
>
>>    Opera's superbly granular control of
>>    configuration (Opera:Config) coupled with
>>    Tamil@MyOpera's blog that seemed to anticipate
>>    virtually every question I've ever had about
>>    changing Opera's behavior with the
>>    corresponding magic Opera:Config solution.
>>
>
> You won't find as many options in Opera as you found in the old Opera, and
> you won't find as many customization points. I think it's also important to
> note that the level of customization possible in Opera 12 will probably
> never come back. It was much liked by those that used it (a small minority,
> I might add), and I certainly understand why it was very attractive to all
> of us that like to tinker, but it was also the main cause of many of the
> stability issues that Opera was plagued with, and later of stagnation: it
> basically became very hard to add anything to Opera without breaking any of
> the thousands of possible combinations of options.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Arjan
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Forgot to send this to the list=
! Replies in-line:<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 a=
t 5:07 PM, Arjan van Leeuwen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:arjanl=
@opera.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Neil,<div class=3D"gmail=
_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"">On Tue, Jun 24, 2014=
 at 3:52 PM, Neil R. Ormos <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ormos-li=
[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</span> wrote=
:<br>

</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:s=
olid;padding-left:1ex"><div>Arjan van Leeuwen wrote:<br></div><div>

...<div class=3D""><br>
&gt; - Mouse gestures!<br>
&gt; - Speed Dial<br>
&gt; - Out-of-the-box HiDPI support<br>
&gt; - No automatic sign-in to google-everything<br>
<br>
</div></div><div class=3D"">Arjan:<br>
<br>
Thanks for your announcement here about the availability of Opera 24 for Li=
nux.<br>
<br>
Your short list above reminds me how widely divergent the reasons various u=
sers prefer the &quot;old&quot; Opera over other browsers are.<br>
<br>
You mention mouse gestures and Speed Dial as among the most important diffe=
rentiators to you of Opera over Chrome. =C2=A0While I never found either of=
 those traditional features of Opera to be especially compelling, I can und=
erstand how others might.<br>

</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, the reasons can indeed be very =
diverse. One of the nice things about the new Opera is that the addons thin=
g has really taken off, and a lot of features are now available as addons, =
allowing users to choose whether they want to work with certain functionali=
ty or not. In addition to Opera&#39;s addons (<a href=3D"https://addons.ope=
ra.com/en/" target=3D"_blank">https://addons.opera.com/en/</a>), Opera can =
also use Chrome extensions (see=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://ruario.ghost.io/2014=
/03/04/extensions-highlight-extension-source-viewer/" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://ruario.ghost.io/2014/03/04/extensions-highlight-extension-source-viewer=
/</a> for more information).</div>

<div><br></div><div>If your knee-jerk reaction is &quot;I don&#39;t like ex=
tensions, they give bloat&quot;, remember that Opera&#39;s extensions are s=
imply HTML and JavaScript that interact with web pages and a couple of Oper=
a-specific APIs (similar to User Scripts in old Opera), not full-blown prog=
rams. And I would argue that thanks to them we in fact have a lot less bloa=
t.</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-l=
eft-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
What drew me to Opera initially (long, long ago) was its fast browsing perf=
ormance, clean UI, keyboard shortcuts, pop-up control, and the like.<br>
<br>
Over time, my priorities changed, and I highly valued such features as:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0keyboard shortcuts (still!);<br></blockquote><div><br></div></=
div><div>Opera has single-key shortcuts (turn on in opera://settings, it&#3=
9;s called &quot;Advanced keyboard shortcuts&quot;), which might or might n=
ot be what you&#39;re referring to here. I know I personally don&#39;t use =
them, but some people can&#39;t do without them. There&#39;s an extension c=
alled &#39;vimium&#39; that many people use to get vim-style keyboard short=
cuts.</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-l=
eft-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0&quot;user mode&quot; and image display control on the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0view toolbar;<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>This s=
hould help you:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/deta=
ils/no-css/?display=3Den" target=3D"_blank">https://addons.opera.com/en/ext=
ensions/details/no-css/?display=3Den</a></div>
<div class=3D"">
<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-l=
eft-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0easy access to delete private data and to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0disable javascript and plug-ins;<br></blockquote><div><br></di=
v></div><div>Delete private data is available from the main menu (and from =
the history view). Opera supports private windows as well. Javascript and p=
lug-ins can both be configured to be disabled by default, and for both you =
can manage a whitelist with sites where you do want to enable them. For plu=
g-ins, Opera also supports &#39;Click-to-play&#39;, which means plugin cont=
ent is only enabled after it has been clicked by you (this is what I person=
ally use).=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-lef=
t-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0extremely useful browsing history and links<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0display;<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>I find the =
history view pretty useful (especially searching in it, which is very fast =
and something I regularly use), but of course I don&#39;t know what you fou=
nd so useful about it before so it&#39;s hard to comment here :). There is =
no Links view in the new Opera, although this sounds like something that co=
uld be perfectly done using an addon (this is true for all features that ga=
ther content from web pages). I don&#39;t know if it exists yet, but it wou=
ldn&#39;t surprise me.</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-l=
eft-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0text-based bookmarks and session files (which I<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0can process outside of Opera with simple<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0tools); and<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Opera in=
herits sqlite-based data files from Chromium. They are not text-based, but =
they are in an open, wide-spread format and quite easy to process outside o=
f Opera, using the sqlite command-line client from scripts or any of the av=
ailable libraries if you&#39;re writing in a more advanced programming lang=
uage.</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-l=
eft-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Opera&#39;s superbly granular control of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0configuration (Opera:Config) coupled with<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Tamil@MyOpera&#39;s blog that seemed to anticipate<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0virtually every question I&#39;ve ever had about<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0changing Opera&#39;s behavior with the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0corresponding magic Opera:Config solution.<br></blockquote><di=
v><br></div></div><div>You won&#39;t find as many options in Opera as you f=
ound in the old Opera, and you won&#39;t find as many customization points.=
 I think it&#39;s also important to note that the level of customization po=
ssible in Opera 12 will probably never come back. It was much liked by thos=
e that used it (a small minority, I might add), and I certainly understand =
why it was very attractive to all of us that like to tinker, but it was als=
o the main cause of many of the stability issues that Opera was plagued wit=
h, and later of stagnation: it basically became very hard to add anything t=
o Opera without breaking any of the thousands of possible combinations of o=
ptions.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Hope this helps,</div><div><br></div><div>Arjan</div></=
div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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