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This is sort of interesting as the canonical example of something that
totally has to be a POST because it=E2=80=99s by definition state-changing,
non-idempotent.
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Erik Wilde [email protected] [rest-discuss]
<[email protected]> wrote:
> +1: as long as you're resource-oriented (meaning you're POSTing to the
> resource to be toggled, rather than a general toggle-whatever-service),
> everything is fine.
>
> cheers,
>
> dret.
>
> On 2014-07-09, 18:02 , Keith P Hassen wrote:
> > Definitely not a departure, as Erik mentioned I think there is a common
> > misconception around the use of POST (it offers no guarantees). You
> > wouldn't need to POST to /command, rather, you would POST to
> > /togglablethingy with a body of, for example, "toggle=3Dtrue".
> >
> > K
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 11:47 AM, 'Simpson, Robby (GE Energy Management)=
'
> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [rest-discuss]
> > <[email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >
> > __
> >
> > Hi Erik!
> >
> >
> >
> > On 7/9/14, 11:39 AM, "Erik Wilde" <[email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >
> > >hello robby.
> > >
> > >On 2014-07-09, 17:29 , 'Simpson, Robby (GE Energy Management)'
> > >[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [rest-discuss]
> > wrote:
> > >> This particular issue has arisen in the design of home automati=
on
> > >>systems. Specifically, I'm working in a standards body (the ZigB=
ee
> > >>Alliance) that has classically used a binary protocol that does
> not
> > >>really adhere to any true architectural design (IMHO). I've been
> > >>engaged in work that started in ZigBee and has now moved to IEEE
> > >>(2030.5) that (attempts to) rigidly stick to a RESTful HTTP
> > design. One
> > >>request that has come up is to port toggle switch capability to
> this
> > >>standard. Home automation manufacturers have actually implemente=
d
> > >>toggle switches this way in the past (see
> > >>http://zigbee.org/Products/ByStandard/ZigBeeHomeAutomation.aspx)=
.
> > >
> > >it sounds like the scenario we were talking about, that all you
> > want is
> > >to tell the resource to "reverse its state". in this case, i'd
> POST a
> > >body that represents this request, in whatever serialization you
> > happen
> > >to prefer. the resource toggles. everybody's happy.
> >
> > OK. Still seems like a bit of a departure from typical RESTful
> > interfaces
> > I've seen and has the potential to be a catch-all tunnel for
> RPC-style
> > requests.
> >
> > E.g.:
> > /command, where one could POST all sorts of commands like "toggle."
> >
> >
> > >but i am confused because you wrote earlier that you were concern=
ed
> > >about race conditions. which seems to imply that instead of just
> > >toggling, you're also assuming that you're "toggling *from* some
> > state".
> > >but that wouldn't be the "blind toggle" we discussed. could you
> > clarify
> > >a bit how exactly the operation that you're trying to design is
> > defined?
> >
> > Apologies, a blind toggle is what is desired. As it currently works=
,
> in
> > the current binary protocol, a button press on a toggle switch simp=
ly
> > sends a "toggle" command.
> >
> >
> > >
> > >cheers,
> > >
> > >dret.
> > >
> > >--
> > >erik wilde | mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> =
-
> > tel:+1-510-2061079 <tel:%2B1-510-2061079> |
> > > | UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) |
> > > | http://dret.net/netdret http://twitter.com/dret |
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> erik wilde | mailto:[email protected] - tel:+1-510-2061079 |
> | UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) |
> | http://dret.net/netdret http://twitter.com/dret |
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Erik Wilde <[email protected]>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>
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- Tim Bray (If you=E2=80=99d like to send me a private message, see
https://keybase.io/timbray)
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<p><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:s=
mall;">This is sort of interesting as the canonical example of something th=
at totally has to be a POST because it=E2=80=99s by definition state-changi=
ng, non-idempotent.</div>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed,=
Jul 9, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Erik Wilde <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">dr=
[email protected]</a> [rest-discuss] <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">rest-discuss-norepl=
[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid;">=
3;1: as long as you're resource-oriented (meaning you're POSTing to=
the<br>
resource to be toggled, rather than a general toggle-whatever-service),<br>
everything is fine.<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
<br>
dret.<br>
<br>
On 2014-07-09, 18:02 , Keith P Hassen wrote:<br>
> Definitely not a departure, as Erik mentioned I think there is a commo=
n<br>
> misconception around the use of POST (it offers no guarantees). =C2=A0=
You<br>
> wouldn't need to POST to /command, rather, you would POST to<br>
> /togglablethingy with a body of, for example, "toggle=3Dtrue"=
;.<br>
><br>
> K<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 11:47 AM, 'Simpson, Robby (GE Energy Manage=
ment)'<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> <m=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> =
[rest-discuss]<br>
> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">rest-discu=
[email protected]</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">res=
[email protected]</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __<br>
><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Erik!<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 7/9/14, 11:39 AM, "Erik Wilde" <<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">dret@ber=
keley.edu</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>hello robby.<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>On 2014-07-09, 17:29 , 'Simpson, Robby (GE=
Energy Management)'<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">robby.=
[email protected]</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">robby=
[email protected]</a>> [rest-discuss]<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 wrote:<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>> This particular issue has arisen in the d=
esign of home automation<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>>systems. Specifically, I'm working in =
a standards body (the ZigBee<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>>Alliance) that has classically used a bina=
ry protocol that does not<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>>really adhere to any true architectural de=
sign (IMHO). I've been<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>>engaged in work that started in ZigBee and=
has now moved to IEEE<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>>(2030.5) that (attempts to) rigidly stick =
to a RESTful HTTP<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 design. One<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>>request that has come up is to port toggle=
switch capability to this<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>>standard. Home automation manufacturers ha=
ve actually implemented<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>>toggle switches this way in the past (see<=
br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>><a href=3D"http://zigbee.org/Products/BySt=
andard/ZigBeeHomeAutomation.aspx" target=3D"_blank">http://zigbee.org/Produ=
cts/ByStandard/ZigBeeHomeAutomation.aspx</a>).<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>it sounds like the scenario we were talking ab=
out, that all you<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 want is<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>to tell the resource to "reverse its stat=
e". in this case, i'd POST a<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>body that represents this request, in whatever=
serialization you<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 happen<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>to prefer. the resource toggles. everybody'=
;s happy.<br>
><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 OK. Still seems like a bit of a departure from typical R=
ESTful<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 interfaces<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I've seen and has the potential to be a catch-all tu=
nnel for RPC-style<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 requests.<br>
><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 E.g.:<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 /command, where one could POST all sorts of commands lik=
e "toggle."<br>
><br>
><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>but i am confused because you wrote earlier th=
at you were concerned<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>about race conditions. which seems to imply th=
at instead of just<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>toggling, you're also assuming that you=
9;re "toggling *from* some<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 state".<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>but that wouldn't be the "blind toggl=
e" we discussed. could you<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 clarify<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>a bit how exactly the operation that you'r=
e trying to design is<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 defined?<br>
><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Apologies, a blind toggle is what is desired. As it curr=
ently works, in<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the current binary protocol, a button press on a toggle =
switch simply<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sends a "toggle" command.<br>
><br>
><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>cheers,<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>dret.<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>--<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>erik wilde | mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dret@ber=
keley.edu">[email protected]</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dret@berkeley=
.edu">[email protected]</a>> -<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 tel:<a href=3D"tel:%2B1-510-2061079" value=3D"+151020610=
79">+1-510-2061079</a> <tel:%2B1-510-2061079> |<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> | UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchoo=
l) |<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> | <a href=3D"http://dret.net/netdret" target=
=3D"_blank">http://dret.net/netdret</a> <a href=3D"http://twitter.com/dret"=
target=3D"_blank">http://twitter.com/dret</a> |<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
--<br>
erik wilde | mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]<=
/a> =C2=A0- =C2=A0tel:<a href=3D"tel:%2B1-510-2061079" value=3D"+1510206107=
9">+1-510-2061079</a> |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | UC Berkeley =C2=A0- =C2=A0Schoo=
l of Information (ISchool) |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | <a href=3D"http://dret.net/netd=
ret" target=3D"_blank">http://dret.net/netdret</a> <a href=3D"http://twitte=
r.com/dret" target=3D"_blank">http://twitter.com/dret</a> |<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------------<br>
Posted by: Erik Wilde <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">dret@berkele=
y.edu</a>><br>
------------------------------------<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------------<br>
<br>
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</div>
<!-- End Recommendations -->
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div style=3D"clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div>
</div>
<img src=3D"http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=3D97359714/grpId=3D4319255/grpspI=
d=3D1705701014/msgId=3D19679/stime=3D1404923512" width=3D"1" height=3D"1"> =
<br>
<img src=3D"http://y.analytics.yahoo.com/fpc.pl?ywarid=3D515FB27823A7407E&a=
=3D10001310322279&js=3Dno&resp=3Dimg" width=3D"1" height=3D"1">=20
<div style=3D"color: #fff; height: 0;">__,_._,___</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</body>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<head>
<style type=3D"text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mkp {
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
font-family: Arial;
margin: 10px 0;
padding: 0 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp hr {
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
}
#ygrp-mkp #hd {
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 85%;
font-weight: 700;
line-height: 122%;
margin: 10px 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp #ads {
margin-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad {
padding: 0 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad p {
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a {
color: #0000ff;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc {
font-family: Arial;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd {
margin: 10px 0px;
font-weight: 700;
font-size: 78%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad {
margin-bottom: 10px;
padding: 0 0;
}
#actions {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 11px;
padding: 10px 0;
}
#activity {
background-color: #e0ecee;
float: left;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
padding: 10px;
}
#activity span {
font-weight: 700;
}
#activity span:first-child {
text-transform: uppercase;
}
#activity span a {
color: #5085b6;
text-decoration: none;
}
#activity span span {
color: #ff7900;
}
#activity span .underline {
text-decoration: underline;
}
.attach {
clear: both;
display: table;
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 12px;
padding: 10px 0;
width: 400px;
}
.attach div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
.attach img {
border: none;
padding-right: 5px;
}
.attach label {
display: block;
margin-bottom: 5px;
}
.attach label a {
text-decoration: none;
}
=20=20
blockquote {
margin: 0 0 0 4px;
}
.bold {
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 13px;
font-weight: 700;
}
.bold a {
text-decoration: none;
}
dd.last p a {
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span {
margin-right: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span.yshortcuts {
margin-right: 0;
}
div.attach-table div div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.attach-table {
width: 400px;
}
div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, div.file-title a:hover, div.fi=
le-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div=
.photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
font-weight: normal;
}
.green {
color: #628c2a;
}
.MsoNormal {
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
o {
font-size: 0;
}
#photos div {
float: left;
width: 72px;
}
#photos div div {
border: 1px solid #666666;
height: 62px;
overflow: hidden;
width: 62px;
}
#photos div label {
color: #666666;
font-size: 10px;
overflow: hidden;
text-align: center;
white-space: nowrap;
width: 64px;
}
#reco-category {
font-size: 77%;
}
#reco-desc {
font-size: 77%;
}
.replbq {
margin: 4px;
}
#ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
/* border-right: 0px solid #000;*/
margin-right: 2px;
padding-right: 5px;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size: 13px;
font-family: Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif;
*font-size: small;
*font: x-small;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size: inherit;
font: 100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {
font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {
font:115% monospace;
*font-size:100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height: 1.22em;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo {
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-msg p a {
font-family: Verdana;
}
#ygrp-msg p#attach-count span {
color: #1E66AE;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
color: #ff7900;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a {
font-size: 130%;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li {
font-size: 77%;
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
}=20
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul {
margin: 0;
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-text {
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p {
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt {
font-size: 120%;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right: none !important;=20
}=20
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html>
<!-- end group email -->
--047d7b2ee6cddb2f7404fdc53ef0--