Re: Fwd: An Open Letter
"mike amundsen [email protected] [rest-discuss]" <[email protected]> Sat, 26 Sep 2015 16:50:15 -0400
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--001a113fbcc6a62e0b0520ac9db1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <snip> designers and developers we still need to know how the code will execute and impact HW resources. </snip> right -- totally agree. i've read some of Conway's other material on this subject and i think this quote is aimed at your point: "The developer=E2=80=99s productivity is best served by a tool set whose be= havior throughout the development cycle is strictly consistent with the principle that the program being executed is available without delay after every change and is identical to the source program entered by the developer."[1] he's posted a preso w/ some additional details, too[2] there certainly is a challenge to creating this "instant feedback" experience -- esp. for distributed (Fielding calls them Networked) systems. and i think that's where the real value will be found. [1] http://www.melconway.com/Home/Inventor.html [2] http://melconway.com/Home/pdf/humanize.pdf mamund +1.859.757.1449 skype: mca.amundsen http://amundsen.com/blog/ http://twitter.com/mamund https://github.com/mamund http://linkedin.com/in/mamund On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Eric Newcomer <[email protected]> wrote= : > > I agree with the goal to adapt computers to humans. Today it's the > reverse. This seems at the heart of the paper, and a good point. > > It's not as if we haven't tried - lots of GUI based 4GLs and code > generators have been developed. But they haven't really succeeded. > > Perhaps the iPad is the right metaphor for human users. But it doesn't > eliminate or replace coding. Far from it. > > Ultimately I'm unsure the paper frames the question correctly. I would > draw more of a distinction between manufacturing and using computers than > suggesting we can do a better job of abstracting code. That has not and m= ay > not work as long as computers themselves are not changed - meaning as > designers and developers we still need to know how the code will execute > and impact HW resources. > > Making computers more usable as a result, however, seems to hold > significant promise. > > Thanks for posting. > > Best, > > Eric > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=3DAndroid> > ------------------------------ > *From*:"mike amundsen [email protected] [rest-discuss]" < > [email protected]> > *Date*:Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 4:09 PM > *Subject*:[rest-discuss] Fwd: An Open Letter > > > > Thought I'd share this email from Mel Conway (remember Conway' Law?) > regarding his current work. > > I find the general idea very compelling and would love to see others weig= h > in on this either on twitter (using his hashtag) or even here on the list= . > > cheers. > > > mamund > +1.859.757.1449 > skype: mca.amundsen > http://amundsen.com/blog/ > http://twitter.com/mamund > https://github.com/mamund > http://linkedin.com/in/mamund > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Mel Conway <[email protected]> > Date: Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 12:19 PM > Subject: An Open Letter > To: > > > To my friends, colleagues, and family: > > I=E2=80=99ve just tweeted a link to a new paper: > =E2=80=9CAn Open Letter to the Tech Community: Humanize the Craft of Buil= ding > Interactive Computer Applications=E2=80=9D. > I invite you to follow me on Twitter at @conways_law or > http://twitter.com/conways_law . > You can also find the paper at > http://melconway.com/humanize-the-craft.pdf > > This five-page paper describes, in almost completely nontechnical terms, > what I have learned during a half-century career of thinking mostly about > one problem: simplifying the software-building process. It invites the te= ch > community to think differently about applications so that application > building can be taught in elementary schools. The paper proposes specific > design principles for the new craft. > > You will read in the first paragraph: > =E2=80=9COver the span of human history the understanding of three import= ant > technologies has migrated from the domains of priests to the domains of > elementary school teachers: arithmetic, writing, and the calendar. Now > software technology must join this migration.=E2=80=9D > > Then: > =E2=80=9CMy search for a new approach has led me to thinking about buildi= ng > applications, not from what is particular to software, but from what is > universal to humanity.=E2=80=9D > > Let=E2=80=99s have a conversation at #HumanizeTheCraft . > > My best, > > Mel > -- > Check out Conway's Law <https://www.google.com/search?q=3Dconway%27s+law> > Resume: http://melconway.com/resume.pdf > New mobile number: 978-712-4925 > >=20 > --001a113fbcc6a62e0b0520ac9db1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/htm= l4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> =20 <body style=3D"background-color: #fff;"> <span style=3D"display:none"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"position:relative;"> <div id=3D"ygrp-msg" style=3D"z-index: 1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-text" > =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 <p><div dir=3D"ltr"><snip><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px;= ">=C2=A0designers and developers we still need to know how the code will ex= ecute and impact HW resources.=C2=A0</span><br></div><div><span style=3D"fo= nt-size:12.8px;"></snip></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12= .8px;"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px;">right -- tot= ally agree.=C2=A0</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px;"><br></= span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px;">i've read some of Con= way's other material on this subject and i think this quote is aimed at= your point:</span></div><br>"The developer=E2=80=99s productivity is = best served by a tool set whose behavior throughout the development cycle i= s strictly consistent with the principle that the program being executed is= available without delay after every change and is identical to the source = program entered by the developer."[1]<div><br></div><div>he's post= ed a preso w/ some additional details, too[2]</div><div><br></div><div>ther= e certainly is a challenge to creating this "instant feedback" ex= perience -- esp. for distributed (Fielding calls them Networked) systems. a= nd i think that's where the real value will be found.</div><div><br></d= iv><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>[1]=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.melcon= way.com/Home/Inventor.html">http://www.melconway.com/Home/Inventor.html</a>= </div><div>[2]=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://melconway.com/Home/pdf/humanize.pdf">= http://melconway.com/Home/pdf/humanize.pdf</a></div><div><br><div><br></div= ><div><br></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><d= iv><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div>mamund<di= v><span><span title=3D"Call with Google Voice"><span title=3D"Call with Goo= gle Voice">+1.859.757.1449</span></span></span><br>skype: mca.amundsen<= br><a href=3D"http://amundsen.com/blog/" target=3D"_blank">http://amundsen.= com/blog/</a><br><a href=3D"http://twitter.com/mamund" target=3D"_blank">ht= tp://twitter.com/mamund</a><br><a href=3D"https://github.com/mamund" target= =3D"_blank">https://github.com/mamund</a><br><a href=3D"http://linkedin.com= /in/mamund" target=3D"_blank">http://linkedin.com/in/mamund</a></div></div>= </div></div> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Eric Newcom= er <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"= _blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"= gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid;"><table cellspacing=3D"0"= cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td valign=3D"top"><br>I agree w= ith the goal to adapt computers to humans. Today it's the reverse. This= seems at the heart of the paper, and a good point.=C2=A0<div><br></div><di= v>It's not as if we haven't tried - lots of GUI based 4GLs and code= generators have been developed. But they haven't really succeeded.=C2= =A0</div><div><br></div><div>Perhaps the iPad is the right metaphor for hum= an users. But it doesn't eliminate or replace coding. Far from it.=C2= =A0</div><div><br></div><div>Ultimately I'm unsure the paper frames the= question correctly. I would draw more of a distinction between manufacturing and using computers than suggesting we can do a better job o= f abstracting code. That has not and may not work as long as computers them= selves are not changed - meaning as designers and developers we still need = to know how the code will execute and impact HW resources.=C2=A0</div><div>= <br></div><div>Making computers more usable as a result, however, seems to = hold significant promise.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for posting.</div= ><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Eric</div><div><br></di= v><div><p><a href=3D"https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=3DAndroid= " target=3D"_blank">Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android</a></p> <hr><table cell= spacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign=3D"to= p"> <div style=3D"font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;color:#7e7d80;"><b>From</b>= :"mike amundsen <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">= [email protected]</a> [rest-discuss]" <<a href=3D"mailto:rest-discus= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">rest-discuss-noreply@yahoogrou= ps.com</a>><br><b>Date</b>:Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 4:09 PM<br><b>Subject</b= >:[rest-discuss] Fwd: An Open Letter<br><br></div>=20 <span>=C2=A0</span> <div> <div><div><div class=3D"h5"> <div> =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 <p></p><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px;">Thought I&#= 39;d share this email from Mel Conway (remember Conway' Law?) regarding= his current work.</span><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px;"><br clear=3D"none= "></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px;">I find the general idea very compe= lling and would love to see others weigh in on this either on twitter (usin= g his hashtag) or even here on the list.</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8p= x;"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px;">cheers.</div>= <br clear=3D"all"><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>= mamund<div><span><span title=3D"Call with Google Voice"><span title=3D"Call= with Google Voice"><a href=3D"tel:%2B1.859.757.1449" value=3D"+18597571449= " target=3D"_blank">+1.859.757.1449</a></span></span></span><br clear= =3D"none">skype: mca.amundsen<br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape= =3D"rect" href=3D"http://amundsen.com/blog/" target=3D"_blank">http://amund= sen.com/blog/</a><br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href= =3D"http://twitter.com/mamund" target=3D"_blank">http://twitter.com/mamund<= /a><br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://gi= thub.com/mamund" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/mamund</a><br clear= =3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://linkedin.com/in= /mamund" target=3D"_blank">http://linkedin.com/in/mamund</a></div></div></d= iv></div> <br clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message = ----------<br clear=3D"none">From: <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">Mel Conway= </b> <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect">conway.mel@gm= ail.com</a>></span><br clear=3D"none">Date: Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 12:19 P= M<br clear=3D"none">Subject: An Open Letter<br clear=3D"none">To: <br clear= =3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>= To my friends, colleagues, and family:</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><= div>I=E2=80=99ve just tweeted a link to a new paper:</div><div>=E2=80=9CAn = Open Letter to the Tech Community: Humanize the Craft of Building Interacti= ve Computer Applications=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0</div><div>I invite you to follow m= e on Twitter at @conways_law or <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"= http://twitter.com/conways_law" target=3D"_blank">http://twitter.com/conway= s_law</a> .=C2=A0</div><div>You can also find the paper at=C2=A0</div><div>= <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://melconway.com/humanize-th= e-craft.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://melconway.com/humanize-the-craft.pdf<= /a></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>This five-page paper describes,= in almost completely nontechnical terms, what I have learned during a half= -century career of thinking mostly about one problem: simplifying the softw= are-building process. It invites the tech community to think differently ab= out applications so that application building can be taught in elementary s= chools. The paper proposes specific design principles for the new craft.=C2= =A0</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>You will read in the first para= graph:</div><div>=E2=80=9COver the span of human history the understanding = of three important technologies has migrated from the domains of priests to= the domains of elementary school teachers: arithmetic, writing, and the calendar. Now sof= tware technology must join this migration.=E2=80=9D</div><div><br clear=3D"= none"></div><div>Then:</div><div>=E2=80=9CMy search for a new approach has = led me to thinking about building applications, not from what is particular= to software, but from what is universal to humanity.=E2=80=9D=C2=A0</div><= div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Let=E2=80=99s have a conversation at #Hum= anizeTheCraft .=C2=A0</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>My best,</div= ><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Mel</div></div><span><font color=3D"#88= 8888">-- <br clear=3D"none"></font></span><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div d= ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l= tr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><di= v dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.6667px= ;">Check out=C2=A0</span><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https:/= /www.google.com/search?q=3Dconway%27s+law" style=3D"font-size:12.6667px;" t= arget=3D"_blank">Conway's Law</a><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"l= tr">Resume: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://melconway.com= /resume.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://melconway.com/resume.pdf</a></div></d= iv><div>New mobile number: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect">978-712-4925<= /a></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>= </div></div></div> </div> </div><br clear=3D"none"></div> </div> =20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 </div></div><div style=3D"color:#fff;min-height:0;"></div></div> </div></td> </tr> </tbody> </table></div></td></tr></tbody></table></b= lockquote></div><br></div> </p> </div> =20=20=20=20=20 <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--> <div style=3D"color: #fff; 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