Re: (X)HTML5 + SMIL?
Ted Han <[email protected]> Sat, 6 Mar 2010 12:12:36 -0500
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.web.smil |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--000e0cd48eee407192048124f057 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hey Greg, My opinion of the matter is this: SMIL is a standard which has many similar characteristics of working w/ HTML (i.e. it's a declarative markup language used to reference files), but lacking any of the things that helped gain mindshare and standardization amongst developers and designers that HTML has benefited from. SMIL needs up to date open references for developers, it needs something akin to HTML's ACID testing, it needs more demos/tutorials for designers, and most importantly standard-adhering players that are freely available for people to use and test in. That's regarding the full SMIL Language support. Aside from that, there needs to be more information about how SMIL relates to actual implementations of user agents (the fact that the SMIL standard doesn't define ONE language, but actually a modular set of languages). People need to be better aware of the fact that SMIL timing can be incorporated into other XML languages (XHTML, SVG, etc). If we want people to use SMIL, we need to be able to succinctly explain what SMIL is, why one would want to use it, and then give them tools that will let them get something running in 5 minutes, and enough documentation and tutorials that they don't get frustrated and give up using those tools in 30 minutes. I've started in on hacking up some of these tools, but they're all in a nacent stage, since i'm splitting my time at work between writing documentation/tools and writing production code for our platform. Here's a link to the reference i'm putting together ( http://github.com/videojuicer/smil-reference ). I've got demos in various stages of functionality at the moment, and once i sort out hosting, i'll link them up. You can also see an SVG map of all the SMIL3 modules: http://knowtheory.net/modules.xhtml or the same thing in PNG form: http://knowtheory.net/SMIL_Modules_Functional_Grouping.png I have thoughts on the HTML5 thing, but i will type that up quickly in a separate email. Cheers, -Ted On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Greg Herlein <[email protected]> wrote: > I'd like to know why there has been such slow adoption of SMIL. For > me, the problem it solves is that it allows temporal definition in the > markup language. The graphical folks grok HTML, but they are not > going to grok learning JS to make elements appear together, or appear > in certain sequences at presrived times or in response to certain > events (clicks, etc). SMIL defines all of that, yet desptie my > deamnds for it commercially (I am Dir Engineering for the largest > retail advertising digital signage company in the world) only a few > companies have anything that supports it. > > I'd love to use the momentum of HTML5 to get more merge. How can I > exert influence? What tasks need to be done on the Engineering side? > How do we all push this forwrd to obtain the *value* of a standard > (because unless it's adopted it's a standard of no worth to the > market). > > -------------------------------- > Greg Herlein > Mobile: 415-368-7546 > Web: blog.herlein.com > twitter: @gherlein > > > > On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 7:01 AM, Ted Han <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks David :) I've run across fakesmil before, but i haven't poked > around > > your source yet, i'll just do that now. > > I'm curious what your experience implementing this in JS has been, > whether > > there are particular performance issues you've encountered, or things > that > > were particularly difficult that you may have had to hack around or > > anything? > > Cheers, > > -Ted > > On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 9:26 AM, David Leunen <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> > >>> > >>> if anyone has interest in trying to develop a JS based SMIL player. > >> > >> I've developed a little JS script that implements most of the animation > >> module (works with SVG and XHTML) + Timesheets. > >> > >> http://leunen.d.free.fr/fakesmile/ > >> It's not complete, but Jeff used to use it successfully on his blog. > > > > > --000e0cd48eee407192048124f057 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Greg,<div><br></div><div>My opinion of the matter is this:</div><div><b= r></div><div>SMIL is a standard which has many similar characteristics of w= orking w/ HTML (i.e. it's a declarative markup language used to referen= ce files), but lacking any of the things that helped gain mindshare and sta= ndardization amongst developers and designers that HTML has benefited from.= =A0SMIL needs up to date open references for developers, it needs somethin= g akin to HTML's ACID testing, it needs more demos/tutorials for design= ers, and most importantly standard-adhering players that are freely availab= le for people to use and test in. =A0That's regarding the full SMIL Lan= guage support.</div> <div><br></div><div>Aside from that, there needs to be more information abo= ut how SMIL relates to actual implementations of user agents (the fact that= the SMIL standard doesn't define ONE language, but actually a modular = set of languages). =A0People need to be better aware of the fact that SMIL = timing can be incorporated into other XML languages (XHTML, SVG, etc).</div= > <div><br></div><div>If we want people to use SMIL, we need to be able to su= ccinctly explain what SMIL is, why one would want to use it, and then give = them tools that will let them get something running in 5 minutes, and enoug= h documentation and tutorials that they don't get frustrated and give u= p using those tools in 30 minutes.</div> <div><br></div><div>I've started in on hacking up some of these tools, = but they're all in a nacent stage, since i'm splitting my time at w= ork between writing documentation/tools and writing production code for our= platform. =A0Here's a link to the reference i'm putting together (= <a href=3D"http://github.com/videojuicer/smil-reference">http://github.com/= videojuicer/smil-reference</a> ).=A0=A0I've got demos in various stages= of functionality at the moment, and once i sort out hosting, i'll link= them up. =A0You can also see an SVG map of all the SMIL3 modules:=A0<a hre= f=3D"http://knowtheory.net/modules.xhtml">http://knowtheory.net/modules.xht= ml</a> or the same thing in PNG form:=A0<a href=3D"http://knowtheory.net/SM= IL_Modules_Functional_Grouping.png">http://knowtheory.net/SMIL_Modules_Func= tional_Grouping.png</a></div> <div><br></div><div>I have thoughts on the HTML5 thing, but i will type tha= t up quickly in a separate email.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><di= v><br></div><div>-Ted</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar = 6, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Greg Herlein <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:g= [email protected]">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">I'd like to know why there has been suc= h slow adoption of SMIL. =A0For<br> me, the problem it solves is that it allows temporal definition in the<br> markup language. =A0The graphical folks grok HTML, but they are not<br> going to grok learning JS to make elements appear together, or appear<br> in certain sequences at presrived times or in response to certain<br> events (clicks, etc). =A0SMIL defines all of that, yet desptie my<br> deamnds for it commercially (I am Dir Engineering for the largest<br> retail advertising digital signage company in the world) only a few<br> companies have anything that supports it.<br> <br> I'd love to use the momentum of HTML5 to get more merge. =A0How can I<b= r> exert influence? =A0What tasks need to be done on the Engineering side?<br> How do we all push this forwrd to obtain the *value* of a standard<br> (because unless it's adopted it's a standard of no worth to the<br> market).<br> <br> --------------------------------<br> <font color=3D"#888888">Greg Herlein<br> Mobile: =A0415-368-7546<br> Web: =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"http://blog.herlein.com" target=3D"_blank">blog.= herlein.com</a><br> twitter: =A0@gherlein<br> </font><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br> <br> <br> On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 7:01 AM, Ted Han <<a href=3D"mailto:ted@knowtheor= y.net">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> > Thanks David :) =A0I've run across fakesmil before, but i haven= 9;t poked around<br> > your source yet, i'll just do that now.<br> > I'm curious what your experience implementing this in JS has been,= whether<br> > there are particular performance issues you've encountered, or thi= ngs that<br> > were particularly difficult that you may have had to hack around or<br= > > anything?<br> > Cheers,<br> > -Ted<br> > On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 9:26 AM, David Leunen <<a href=3D"mailto:leu= [email protected]">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> >><br> >><br> >>><br> >>> if anyone has interest in trying to develop a JS based SMIL pl= ayer.<br> >><br> >> I've developed a little JS script that implements most of the = animation<br> >> module (works with SVG and XHTML) + Timesheets.<br> >><br> >> <a href=3D"http://leunen.d.free.fr/fakesmile/" target=3D"_blank">h= ttp://leunen.d.free.fr/fakesmile/</a><br> >> It's not complete, but Jeff used to use it successfully on his= blog.<br> ><br> ><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div> --000e0cd48eee407192048124f057--