Re: (X)HTML5 + SMIL?
Ted Han <[email protected]> Sat, 6 Mar 2010 12:27:24 -0500
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.web.smil |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--000e0cd61e64301dd504812525c8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Regarding HTML5, i think that interoperability may be a difficult road to hoe, especially if there's only one or two people advocating for it. If i were to put together a proposal (and i'd like to), i would ideally like to have usecases for where SMIL is being used now, what usecases HTML5 support would enable developers/users to do, and examples of things people are putting together to get around a lack of support in browsers as it stands (e.g. fake smile). This is all info that needs to be gathered from the SMIL community. So if you have examples, i would love to hear about them. I'm aware of some places where SMIL is used, i know that Hulu uses the standard to serve to their player, the CDN Highwinds uses SMIL for content delivery, and the company i work for uses SMIL to dynamically generate/customize presentations to deliver to users (also to our player). There's the SMIL subset in SVG that developers can use to enable animation (i'm hacking up a demo of that too, although there are already several out there, if you spend a tedious amount of time looking for them). I'm aware vaguely that advertising agencies use the standard, but not in any specific way. I can draft up cool examples of what SMIL allows people to do and perhaps hack up some demos, but that isn't the same as having real world examples! Cheers, -Ted P.S. the flipside to all of this is justifying why SMIL may be a better match than alternatives like just using HTML5+JS, or CSS Animations. I have justifications for why SMIL is more useful than HTML5+JS (being that it's declarative and doesn't open up a cross site scripting hole just by it's very use), but i need to learn more about CSS animations before i can put together a coherent argument on that count. On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Greg Herlein <[email protected]> wrote: > I'd like to know why there has been such slow adoption of SMIL. For > me, the problem it solves is that it allows temporal definition in the > markup language. The graphical folks grok HTML, but they are not > going to grok learning JS to make elements appear together, or appear > in certain sequences at presrived times or in response to certain > events (clicks, etc). SMIL defines all of that, yet desptie my > deamnds for it commercially (I am Dir Engineering for the largest > retail advertising digital signage company in the world) only a few > companies have anything that supports it. > > I'd love to use the momentum of HTML5 to get more merge. How can I > exert influence? What tasks need to be done on the Engineering side? > How do we all push this forwrd to obtain the *value* of a standard > (because unless it's adopted it's a standard of no worth to the > market). > > -------------------------------- > Greg Herlein > Mobile: 415-368-7546 > Web: blog.herlein.com > twitter: @gherlein > > > > On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 7:01 AM, Ted Han <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks David :) I've run across fakesmil before, but i haven't poked > around > > your source yet, i'll just do that now. > > I'm curious what your experience implementing this in JS has been, > whether > > there are particular performance issues you've encountered, or things > that > > were particularly difficult that you may have had to hack around or > > anything? > > Cheers, > > -Ted > > On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 9:26 AM, David Leunen <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> > >>> > >>> if anyone has interest in trying to develop a JS based SMIL player. > >> > >> I've developed a little JS script that implements most of the animation > >> module (works with SVG and XHTML) + Timesheets. > >> > >> http://leunen.d.free.fr/fakesmile/ > >> It's not complete, but Jeff used to use it successfully on his blog. > > > > > --000e0cd61e64301dd504812525c8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Regarding HTML5, i think that interoperability may be a difficult road to h= oe, especially if there's only one or two people advocating for it.<div= ><br></div><div>If i were to put together a proposal (and i'd like to),= i would ideally like to have usecases for where SMIL is being used now, wh= at usecases HTML5 support would enable developers/users to do, and examples= of things people are putting together to get around a lack of support in b= rowsers as it stands (e.g. fake smile).</div> <div><br></div><div>This is all info that needs to be gathered from the SMI= L community. =A0So if you have examples, i would love to hear about them.</= div><div><br></div><div>I'm aware of some places where SMIL is used, i = know that Hulu uses the standard to serve to their player, the CDN Highwind= s uses SMIL for content delivery, and the company i work for uses SMIL to d= ynamically generate/customize presentations to deliver to users (also to ou= r player). There's the SMIL subset in SVG that developers can use to en= able animation (i'm hacking up a demo of that too, although there are a= lready several out there, if you spend a tedious amount of time looking for= them). =A0I'm aware vaguely that advertising agencies use the standard= , but not in any specific way.</div> <div><br></div><div>I can draft up cool examples of what SMIL allows people= to do and perhaps hack up some demos, but that isn't the same as havin= g real world examples!</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div= > <div>-Ted</div><div><br></div><div>P.S. the flipside to all of this is just= ifying why SMIL may be a better match than alternatives like just using HTM= L5+JS, or CSS Animations. =A0I have justifications for why SMIL is more use= ful than HTML5+JS (being that it's declarative and doesn't open up = a cross site scripting hole just by it's very use), but i need to learn= more about CSS animations before i can put together a coherent argument on= that count.</div> <div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 11:21= AM, Greg Herlein <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:gherlein@herlein.= com">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gma= il_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-lef= t:1ex;"> I'd like to know why there has been such slow adoption of SMIL. =A0For<= br> me, the problem it solves is that it allows temporal definition in the<br> markup language. =A0The graphical folks grok HTML, but they are not<br> going to grok learning JS to make elements appear together, or appear<br> in certain sequences at presrived times or in response to certain<br> events (clicks, etc). =A0SMIL defines all of that, yet desptie my<br> deamnds for it commercially (I am Dir Engineering for the largest<br> retail advertising digital signage company in the world) only a few<br> companies have anything that supports it.<br> <br> I'd love to use the momentum of HTML5 to get more merge. =A0How can I<b= r> exert influence? =A0What tasks need to be done on the Engineering side?<br> How do we all push this forwrd to obtain the *value* of a standard<br> (because unless it's adopted it's a standard of no worth to the<br> market).<br> <br> --------------------------------<br> <font color=3D"#888888">Greg Herlein<br> Mobile: =A0415-368-7546<br> Web: =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"http://blog.herlein.com" target=3D"_blank">blog.= herlein.com</a><br> twitter: =A0@gherlein<br> </font><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br> <br> <br> On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 7:01 AM, Ted Han <<a href=3D"mailto:ted@knowtheor= y.net">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> > Thanks David :) =A0I've run across fakesmil before, but i haven= 9;t poked around<br> > your source yet, i'll just do that now.<br> > I'm curious what your experience implementing this in JS has been,= whether<br> > there are particular performance issues you've encountered, or thi= ngs that<br> > were particularly difficult that you may have had to hack around or<br= > > anything?<br> > Cheers,<br> > -Ted<br> > On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 9:26 AM, David Leunen <<a href=3D"mailto:leu= [email protected]">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> >><br> >><br> >>><br> >>> if anyone has interest in trying to develop a JS based SMIL pl= ayer.<br> >><br> >> I've developed a little JS script that implements most of the = animation<br> >> module (works with SVG and XHTML) + Timesheets.<br> >><br> >> <a href=3D"http://leunen.d.free.fr/fakesmile/" target=3D"_blank">h= ttp://leunen.d.free.fr/fakesmile/</a><br> >> It's not complete, but Jeff used to use it successfully on his= blog.<br> ><br> ><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div> --000e0cd61e64301dd504812525c8--