Re: State of Windows deployment in 2009?

On 2009-11-24, at 5:51 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

>>>>> The community has arisen in response to Apple pulling back (e.g., =
Entity Modeler was written because of Apple's decision to pull the =
tools). You've got it backwards I'm afraid.
>>>>=20
>>>> Not really, IMHO, Apple is now recognizing the great contributions =
from the community, which might be better than their own. Eclipse/EM =
seemed an obvious progression; so why stand in the way?
>>>=20
>>> You're just not providing a true picture of history. Xcode was the =
predominant dev tools for WO until Apple dropped it... and then the =
masses looked for an alternative and got behind WOLips. Sure, the WOLips =
tools were around beforehand but were in no way in a ready state for the =
masses. That's all since changed...
>>>=20
>>> with regards,
>>> --
>>>=20
>>> Lachlan Deck
>>=20
>> Talking about history; we have been using WebObjects since 1998. The =
point is that Apple did not want to stand in the way of something better =
suited. In their opinion, at that time, the WOLips tools WERE ready for =
the masses, as Apple had already been using them internally for a couple =
of years prior to that.=20
> That's just not quite the reality of what went down. WOLips existed, =
yes, and quite a few of us preferred it (including several people inside =
of Apple, yes), but we didn't have any replacement for EOModeler at that =
point. About a month before WWDC the year Apple announced they were =
dropping the dev tools, I received a call from an Apple engineer who =
suggested that I should maybe more seriously consider following through =
on my previous discussions about making a replacement for EOModeler =
based on Eclipse/WOLips, because the dev tools would no longer work on =
Leopard after the Java bridge was dropped. The decision to drop the =
tools was a foregone conclusion of dropping the bridge, and Apple =
apparently didn't have the desire to make new ones, which meant that the =
REALITY was that there simply wasn't ANY answer at the time for what was =
going to be announced. If you go back in svn history, you'll see quite a =
frantic thrashing of commits going from nothing to a limping Entity =
Modeler in the span of about a month. The Entity Modeler that was shown =
that year was literally built the morning of the session to make "add =
relationship" work. So I don't think Apple got out of the way to =
gracefully bow out to the better open source competitor (though i like =
to think we BECAME the better open source competitor in many ways), =
rather they killed the WO tools by way of a series of cascading =
decisions and didn't really care about making a replacement.
>=20
> ms

Yes, I was referring to WOLips ex Entity Modeler, which was very well =
received by Apple. Personally, I was still sceptical at that time, and =
was Content with XCode/EOModeler as that still seemed the "official" =
Apple protocol. However, it was my Apple contact that had been telling =
me over-and-over again, that WOLips/Eclipse was so much better... I =
really appreciate your efforts and am amazed that Entity Modeller was =
included so quickly when the need arose, and works so well.

Regards,

Dennis.=