Re: State of Windows deployment in 2009?

On Nov 24, 2009, at 6:09 PM, Gaastra Dennis - WO Lists wrote:

>
>
> On 2009-11-24, at 5:51 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:
>
>>>>>> The community has arisen in response to Apple pulling back  
>>>>>> (e.g., Entity Modeler was written because of Apple's decision  
>>>>>> to pull the tools). You've got it backwards I'm afraid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not really, IMHO, Apple is now recognizing the great  
>>>>> contributions from the community, which might be better than  
>>>>> their own. Eclipse/EM seemed an obvious progression; so why  
>>>>> stand in the way?
>>>>
>>>> You're just not providing a true picture of history. Xcode was  
>>>> the predominant dev tools for WO until Apple dropped it... and  
>>>> then the masses looked for an alternative and got behind WOLips.  
>>>> Sure, the WOLips tools were around beforehand but were in no way  
>>>> in a ready state for the masses. That's all since changed...
>>>>
>>>> with regards,
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Lachlan Deck
>>>
>>> Talking about history; we have been using WebObjects since 1998.  
>>> The point is that Apple did not want to stand in the way of  
>>> something better suited. In their opinion, at that time, the  
>>> WOLips tools WERE ready for the masses, as Apple had already been  
>>> using them internally for a couple of years prior to that.
>> That's just not quite the reality of what went down. WOLips  
>> existed, yes, and quite a few of us preferred it (including several  
>> people inside of Apple, yes), but we didn't have any replacement  
>> for EOModeler at that point. About a month before WWDC the year  
>> Apple announced they were dropping the dev tools, I received a call  
>> from an Apple engineer who suggested that I should maybe more  
>> seriously consider following through on my previous discussions  
>> about making a replacement for EOModeler based on Eclipse/WOLips,  
>> because the dev tools would no longer work on Leopard after the  
>> Java bridge was dropped. The decision to drop the tools was a  
>> foregone conclusion of dropping the bridge, and Apple apparently  
>> didn't have the desire to make new ones, which meant that the  
>> REALITY was that there simply wasn't ANY answer at the time for  
>> what was going to be announced. If you go back in svn history,  
>> you'll see quite a frantic thrashing of commits going from nothing  
>> to a limping Entity Modeler in the span of about a month. The  
>> Entity Modeler that was shown that year was literally built the  
>> morning of the session to make "add relationship" work. So I don't  
>> think Apple got out of the way to gracefully bow out to the better  
>> open source competitor (though i like to think we BECAME the better  
>> open source competitor in many ways), rather they killed the WO  
>> tools by way of a series of cascading decisions and didn't really  
>> care about making a replacement.
>>
>> ms
>
> Yes, I was referring to WOLips ex Entity Modeler, which was very  
> well received by Apple.

You mean after they burned (er, killed) the JavaBridge and thus end-of- 
lifed EOModeler?  Of course it was well received, it replaced a gaping  
hole!


Chuck


> Personally, I was still sceptical at that time, and was Content with  
> XCode/EOModeler as that still seemed the "official" Apple protocol.  
> However, it was my Apple contact that had been telling me over-and- 
> over again, that WOLips/Eclipse was so much better... I really  
> appreciate your efforts and am amazed that Entity Modeller was  
> included so quickly when the need arose, and works so well.
>
> Regards,

-- 
Chuck Hill             Senior Consultant / VP Development

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.
http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects