Re: New introduction to XForms 2.0
John Boyer <[email protected]> Tue, 18 Feb 2014 17:13:16 -0800
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.web.xforms |
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| Message-ID | <OFC0F9BD95.5D53B648-ON88257C84.0004E3C2-88257C84.0006B5CF@ca.ibm.com> |
This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0006B58388257C84_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Hi guys, I'd suggest rolling the "essential properties" into the benefits summary. They don't fully characterize XForms, and they read like the other benefits. In particular, the second essential property could be softened and reworded. Copy pasting it says "The controls no longer explicitly say what they look like, but what they do." The reader who hasn't been doing XForms for a decade will say that most controls don't say what they look like, that's what CSS does. So, these essential points are incomplete but also don't form a higher level "elevator pitch" for XForms, which should 1) characterize it succinctly, 2) have a highly resonant reason why the reader should care, and 3) follow the rule of 3. Cheers, John M. Boyer, Ph.D. IBM Distinguished Engineer & IBM Master Inventor @johnboyerphd | [email protected] From: Erik Bruchez <[email protected]> To: Steven Pemberton <[email protected]>, Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Forms WG <[email protected]> Date: 02/18/2014 04:50 PM Subject: Re: New introduction to XForms 2.0 Sent by: [email protected] Steven, Sorry not to have done this sooner, but I have now reviewed the intro. My comments/corrections below: 1. This might be personal, but I don't like much the use of "XForm" as a countable thing, as in "an XForm", "some XForms". I would prefer talking about a "form", and "some forms", as it is clear what we are talking about here. 2. I am not sure that it helps to mention "Experience has shown [$B!D(B] order of magnitude". I would rather leave this out (or that would call for a "citation needed"), as whether true or not it does sound like a marketing message. 3. Typo: "manipulted $B"*(B "manipulated". 4. `<itemset nodeset="...">`: should now be `<itemset ref="...">`. 5. "As the name suggests": not sure how the name suggests "Web" forms? To me it would suggest "XML" forms ;) 6. A big issue with XForms 1.1 and earlier is how you deal with calculations on currency values, as there was no decimal type (answer: they work on doubles and produce funny results at times). So in the example that shows `calculate="../unitprice * ../howmany"`, there should be a `bind` assigning a `decimal` type to `unitprice`. This is now possible out of the box with the use or XPath 2 and type annotations. That's it for now! -Erik On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Steven Pemberton <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear XForms users, > > I have rewritten the introduction to XForms for the XForms 2.0 spec and > would appreciate any comments you might have. > > http://www.cwi.nl/~steven/forms/intro.html > > I have tried to simplify it. Are there any features that don't get mentioned > that ought to be? > Are there things mentioned that don't need to be? > > Thanks for any help. > > Steven Pemberton > --=_alternative 0006B58388257C84_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-2022-JP" <font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hi guys,</font> <br> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I'd suggest rolling the "essential properties" into the benefits summary. They don't fully characterize XForms, and they read like the other benefits.</font> <br> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">In particular, the second essential property could be softened and reworded. Copy pasting it says "</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><b>The controls no longer explicitly say what they look like, but what they do.</b></font><font size=2 face="sans-serif">" The reader who hasn't been doing XForms for a decade will say that most controls don't say what they look like, that's what CSS does.</font> <br> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">So, these essential points are incomplete but also don't form a higher level "elevator pitch" for XForms, which should </font> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">1) characterize it succinctly, </font> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">2) have a highly resonant reason why the reader should care, and </font> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">3) follow the rule of 3. </font> <br> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Cheers,</font> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">John M. Boyer, Ph.D.<br> IBM Distinguished Engineer & IBM Master Inventor<br> @johnboyerphd | [email protected]<br> </font> <br> <br> <br> <br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From: </font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Erik Bruchez <[email protected]></font> <br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To: </font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Steven Pemberton <[email protected]>, </font> <br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Cc: </font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"[email protected]" <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Forms WG <[email protected]></font> <br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date: </font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">02/18/2014 04:50 PM</font> <br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject: </font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: New introduction to XForms 2.0</font> <br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Sent by: </font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">[email protected]</font> <br> <hr noshade> <br> <br> <br><tt><font size=2>Steven,<br> <br> Sorry not to have done this sooner, but I have now reviewed the intro.<br> My comments/corrections below:<br> <br> 1. This might be personal, but I don't like much the use of "XForm" as<br> a countable thing, as in "an XForm", "some XForms". I would prefer<br> talking about a "form", and "some forms", as it is clear what we are<br> talking about here.<br> <br> 2. I am not sure that it helps to mention "Experience has shown [$B!D(B]<br> order of magnitude". I would rather leave this out (or that would call<br> for a "citation needed"), as whether true or not it does sound like a<br> marketing message.<br> <br> 3. Typo: "manipulted $B"*(B "manipulated".<br> <br> 4. `<itemset nodeset="...">`: should now be `<itemset ref="...">`.<br> <br> 5. "As the name suggests": not sure how the name suggests "Web" forms?<br> To me it would suggest "XML" forms ;)<br> <br> 6. A big issue with XForms 1.1 and earlier is how you deal with<br> calculations on currency values, as there was no decimal type (answer:<br> they work on doubles and produce funny results at times). So in the<br> example that shows `calculate="../unitprice * ../howmany"`, there<br> should be a `bind` assigning a `decimal` type to `unitprice`. This is<br> now possible out of the box with the use or XPath 2 and type<br> annotations.<br> <br> That's it for now!<br> <br> -Erik<br> <br> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Steven Pemberton<br> <[email protected]> wrote:<br> > Dear XForms users,<br> ><br> > I have rewritten the introduction to XForms for the XForms 2.0 spec and<br> > would appreciate any comments you might have.<br> ><br> > </font></tt><a href=http://www.cwi.nl/~steven/forms/intro.html><tt><font size=2>http://www.cwi.nl/~steven/forms/intro.html</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br> ><br> > I have tried to simplify it. Are there any features that don't get mentioned<br> > that ought to be?<br> > Are there things mentioned that don't need to be?<br> ><br> > Thanks for any help.<br> ><br> > Steven Pemberton<br> ><br> <br> </font></tt> <br> --=_alternative 0006B58388257C84_=--