Re: [Communications] bastille day followup | plone.org/plone.com

I might state the total obvious or not get the point at all, but:

Doesn't VHM support running a plone site as plone.org/vroot?

It sounds as if we want all of them within one domain, because of SEO.
It also sounds as if there are independent great ideas for plone.org and
plone.com.

Shouldn't this discussion be only about how to name the virtual roots
under which the former plone.com and the former plone.org and the former
plone.xxx, and the ... are to be hosted?

btw: I would totally appreciate efforts to get plone.xxx - If we need
naked people with plone logo body painting, I'm in!

Ramon Navarro Bosch <[email protected]> writes:
> My policy on Plone is small steps, forward steps. In my opinion is the only
> option to make progress. So we are going to continue our work on plone.org.
> We plan to finish the steps at the end of the year or at least close to
> Plone 5 release.
>
> Plone is a product and is a community, both POV are great but what is much
> more important than SEO ( and I don't mean that SEO is not important ) is
> that PLONE is great as a product and as a community. For this reason, we
> need two sites, the community site, where people, developers, documenters,
> join the community and helps evolving the site. It's an open source project
> with a huge amount of great brains behind, an important Foundation, so
> let's show this information on the plone web site. On the other POV plone
> is also a great product that helps business, produces money and you can
> sell. All plone companies arround the would explain what is Plone, sometime
> it's easy, others no. The target of people to who we are talking is really
> different from community people, they expect a product page, people saying
> that plone is great, feature pages, success stories. That's the POV I've
> allways seen on plone.com. And that's the idea Armin and me had on our
> minds. I don't know if Armin is out right now of this task, but I still
> beleave that no SEO reason should blind us to merge a real free software
> community page and a business marketing page.
>
> There has been a lot of discussion about PSC... IMHO there is no magic
> solution that feets all the needs and right now is nearly outdated, unused
> and hard to maintain. There has been a lot of improvements on pypi, maybe
> we need some thin layer that filters packages from pypi, and allow the
> author to add more information or something like that, but less is more and
> better!!
>
> Finally, there are some teams on plone that take care about different
> subjects on plone eco-system. My opinion is that we should move this
> discussion to a plone web list.
>
> Go go go!
>
>
> 2013/7/19 Gabrielle Hendryx-Parker <gabrielle-qEDqLqPM/[email protected]>
>
>> I agree that it would have been better to go over our reasoning some more
>> but, after 4 days of very long sprint hours, it took 2h to sum up what
>> everybody had worked on in a blog post, and we just didn't have it in us to
>> explain the rationale at length on a longer document that few would have
>> taken the time to read anyway. We were hoping people would just ask
>> questions.
>>
>> What really sparked the discussion on whether to have or not to have 2
>> sites was the fact that we can't promote Plone without promoting the Plone
>> add-ons (which would stay on the DEV site). With 2 sites, we would have to
>> have complex syndication in place to avoid duplication of content, and we
>> all felt uneasy about going down that path.
>>
>> Additionally, we discussed the fact that Plone doesn't have the visibility
>> or budget that Linux or Drupal have. Therefore we don't have a choice: we
>> HAVE TO care about SEO due to our small market share. That's when we
>> realized we were about to embark on a path that would negatively impact our
>> domain authority score, and therefore our marketing efforts.
>>
>> This led to the recommendation, as Jim Bartek said, to keep one root
>> domain with subfolders for each special interest group (SIG) that they can
>> control.
>>
>> The vision is that, under that one domain, developers can control the
>> Developers section, EDU can control theirs, and GOV, etc.  And Marketing
>> can stick with the homepage and subsections of it that are focused on
>> getting business decision makers and technical newcomers interested enough
>> in Plone to learn more, dig into the DEV section, install it, run a demo,
>> call an expert, etc.
>>
>> Let me repeat this: Developers would have entire control over their
>> Developers section.
>>
>> Gabrielle
>> --
>> Six Feet Up, Inc. | Where sophisticated web projects thrive
>> Direct Line: +1 (317) 861-5948 x601
>> Email: gabrielle-qEDqLqPM/[email protected]
>> Try Plone 4 Today at: http://plone4demo.com
>>
>> On Jul 19, 2013, at 12:39 AM, Dylan Jay <djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > On 19/07/2013, at 5:26 AM, Elizabeth Leddy <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> For those that missed the excellent report, the Bastille day sprint
>> report is up at:
>> http://plone.org/news/bastille-day-day-sprint-2013-results
>> >>
>> >> There are a couple major issues I think we need to discuss as a
>> community and since people on the marketing/coms team aren't communicating
>> with each other and commenting for plone.org is turned off, I'll start
>> the discussion here. Weird? maybe, But I don't know where else to go.
>> >
>> > I wasn't aware there was a marketing sprint at PSM until you mentioned
>> it. Pretty much the way sprints work is that hopefully there is groundwork
>> to collect the input of everyone up until that point (doesn't happen as
>> much as it should) but then people get in a room and make decisions. It's
>> not perfect but given nature of our community and the georgraphy there
>> isn't a better way.
>> > At the end of the day, those that volenteer to sprint on actually
>> implemnting plone.org or plone.com are going to be the ones that decide.
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> ISSUE 1: plone.org and plone.com under 1 domain
>> >>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Please, please, please don't do this. plone.org has to be so much more
>> fluid than plone.com. We need to maintain it at a much higher level
>> (read: restarting constantly) and as a developer I am tired of the content
>> I post being under the rule of any marketing team. plone.org should
>> eventually showcase developers and what we do, not who we are selling to.
>> >>
>> >> Ramon - have you done a blog post about the work you are doing with
>> plone.org yet? Maybe talk with the sprinters at Basitlle day? Did anyone
>> outside of the in crowd know that there is a beautiful design just sitting
>> there waiting for help?
>> >
>> > As someone involved in the marketing sprint in NL last year and giving
>> feedback on the plone.com designs last year, I was also dismayed in the
>> sudden change in direction and especially the decisive manner it was
>> delivered instead of acknowledging the work that had gone on previously and
>> writing with and expectation that change would be upsetting.
>> >
>> > However I thought about it and I actually agree with a single domain.
>> > Other than the SEO reason given I'd give the other reasons.
>> > - Effort. We have so much to do and limited volunteer resources to do
>> it. 2 sites = 1.5 times the effort. If coming up with a new design and
>> getting someone to create and mainatain it were easy then we'd have
>> plone.com by now. Maybe a single domain will make it less effort and more
>> likely to happen
>> > - Confusion: It would be good for me to give tell people to search for
>> plone and be assured they get a good impression. Having the marketting bit
>> to replace plone.org frontpage allows that to happen. I get that plone.comallows us to a have a decision maker focused website with a different
>> target market to the developer focus of plone.org. But if I was a
>> business that had plone as my product I'd probably have one site with the
>> low attention span decision makers targeted on the front page, and the more
>> commited developers targeted with a big contribute/community/develop button
>> up in the top right. This is how vender open source does it (
>> http://www.alfresco.com/). I'd say the reason drupal doesn't is that in
>> all likelihood acquia sponsors drupal.com so it would be a conflict of
>> interest for them to take over drupal.org. We don't have that problem.
>> Silverstripe have both .org. and .com. So I guess there are arguments
>> either way.
>> > - I think idea of bringing in ploneedu and plonegov into plone.org a
>> good idea. Again it saves on effort, letting people worry about content
>> only not design/maintainance. It gives these efforts more "blessing".
>> Compare it to say drupalcommons which is a seperate site and it's unclear
>> who is behind it in comparison to the main drupal community.
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ISSUE 2: we are completely defunct in marketing. bankrupt.
>> >>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> I am at a loss here. I see in the post all of these marketing
>> techniques like target users and blah blah which have been done at more
>> than 2 sprints now. What do we as a community need to do to get marketing
>> to work with each other in the same way that the developers do?
>> >>
>> >> How many revamps of plone.com are we going to go through until we
>> actually push it? Can we just hire a marketing group that is external and
>> pass the buck? At least plone.com would go live and we wouldn't have to
>> worry about it.  I'm sincerely disappointed in our inability to get our
>> shit together on the marketing front, especially with regards to our
>> domains.
>> >
>> > I think you are being a bit harsh. Plone has the same problem with code
>> as it does with marketing. If the problem isn't low hanging fruit then it's
>> hard to get momentum and keep it going. Even with the toolbar code at the
>> sprint, some previous work was ignored. I can't blame them for that. They
>> were at the sprint and they produced code and at least now we have
>> something working-ish that can be improved on.
>> > I think plone marketing is hard. We all don't agree on how plone should
>> be presented. I personally don't like the summing up of plone as the
>> ultimate open source "enterprise" CMS but I understand thats the best
>> summary based on our current userbase. I'd prefer we looked more to who we
>> "want" to get to use Plone, rather who currently does. To me "enterprise"
>> means feature rich but hard/expensive to install and configure and you
>> probably need a company behind it to even consider it. In reality Plone is
>> now the most expressive and easiest to customise CMS on the market. We beat
>> expressionengine at it's own game. We just haven't realised it yet as a
>> community.
>> > I think in part because of such disagreements it makes it hard to
>> progress. If we hire someone external it doesn't make the problem easier,
>> it just means they will know less about plone. Someone just needs to sprint
>> on implementing "a" design with "a" slogan on an actual website and then we
>> can reevaluate it in 6months. I don't think the messages and that the last
>> sprint came up with are too bad all things considered.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I'm not Linus, so I won't threaten anyone but I promise you this: If
>> plone.com isn't up by the end of this year I'm teaching a cat to juggle
>> plone balls and just putting a giant animated gif up cause that's the most
>> accurate representation of what we are doing right now.
>> >>
>> >> Opinions, help, leadership: all welcome.
>> >>
>> >> Liz
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Elizabeth Leddy
>> >> Sent with Sparrow
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Communications mailing list
>> > [email protected]
>> > https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-communications
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Ramon a.k.a bloodbare
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