Re: implication of removing portal_skins

On 18/07/2013, at 3:50 AM, Elizabeth Leddy <[email protected]> wrote:

> 
> On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 at 8:56 PM, Dylan Jay wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 08/07/2013, at 2:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks Yuri - my hope is that this document *will* be the basis for such a tutorial.
>>> 
>>> I see no one has jumped in to edit the document… https://github.com/collective/collective.developermanual/blob/master/source/misc/plone5way.rst
>>> 
>>> Maybe this is the wrong list to post it to, because most of you will consider yourselves developers, whereas the concerns being expressed at the removal of portal_skins and other TTW mechanisms will be held mostly by themers and integrators.
>>> 
>>> On the other hand, if you see things in this list that themers and integrators are used to doing now and you're aware of "better" (newer) ways of doing those things, please chime in now or don't complain that themers and integrators should RTFM. We want this to become part of TFM. :)
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I've considered updating the document but the problem I have is that actually isn't a core way, or a recommended way to do some kinds of customisations.
>> I'd love to have a discussion about what could be a new way to do things, but it's a hard conversation to have since it's something that would have to be implemented by developers but used by integrators themers. I suspect there aren't many of us that are both core developers and integrators.... or at least that have the time for a email discussion.
>> If anyone has ideas of on what is missing in plone to replace portal_skins then maybe we can find a way to discuss it on IRC?
> Let's do it! Set a time and we'll all be there.

Sorry, I still haven't done this. Finding time and energy to arrange a meeting in a timezone that works for the rest of the world is eluding me.
Email tends to work better for me, but I'm left wondering which email list would get read by integrators and themers. I'm thinking of the UI list, since replacing portal_skins is really about creating a user interface for integrators and themers customise plone intuitively and with little training. So if you're interested in that issue please join me on that list.

>> In terms of replacing portal skins.
>> - currently 80% of the time the customisations you want can be handled by diazo TTW, or a combination of an existing plugin and diazo.
>> - the remainder are because you need to write some python code to access something in the api. In this case your options are
>> - martins themingplugins - let's you include ZPT you create in diazo. (and has a TTW jbot replacement).
>> - collective.listingviews - let's you create simple views TTW in the site setup
>> - portal_customisations (only if its an existing view)
>> other proposed TTW solutions include
>> - david glicks proposed enhancement to dexterity to allow TTW ZPT views.
>> 
>> None of these seem particularly popular yet so could be considered a "recommended way".
>> Perhaps a better question to ask is why isn't any of these popular?
> Because people don't like to change. 95% of the arguments I've had are related to that. Also, there is no recommended way so its a bit freestyle. Chicken and egg problem I think.
> 
> Liz 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Kim
>>> 
>>> On Jul 4, 2013, at 1:45 AM, Yuri <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Il 03/07/2013 20:17, Nathan Van Gheem ha scritto:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> Kim Nguyen is wanting to take up the effort of making sure we fill the
>>>> functionality hole correctly when we remove the use of portal_skins in
>>>> Plone 5.
>>>> 
>>>> He, and many others, are concerned that doing quick edits on
>>>> functionality in plone will become very difficult with the removal of
>>>> portal_skins. When managing MANY sites, as he does, being able to do
>>>> quick edits through the ZMI is very important to the power of Plone
>>>> and his deployment.
>>>> 
>>>> Kim created a document with his concerns enumerated and asked me to
>>>> respond. I have, and we've now put that document, unlinked, in the
>>>> collective developer docs with the idea of the document eventually
>>>> morphing into a howto on doing things the "plone 5" way without
>>>> portal_skins.
>>>> 
>>>> The document is located at:
>>>> https://github.com/collective/collective.developermanual/blob/master/source/misc/plone5way.rst
>>> 
>>> This is a very nice and effective document. Why don't put tutorial
>>> online with the old way vs the new way?
>>> 
>>> A question: for sites with the old customizations, how the migration can
>>> be handled?
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Warning, my responses are NOT assumed to be the absolute correct
>>>> response. These are just things I've thought of right now. Please, if
>>>> you can explain things better or know of a better way, modify the
>>>> responses.
>>>> 
>>>> Also, this is no a place or a discussion of why portal_skins is bad or
>>>> wrong for the future of Plone. We've had that discussion, done :)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Nathan
>>>> 
>>>> 
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