Re: do we need plone.app.customerize? was: [Plone-Users] Insufficient privileges on folder_contents

Hi,

I'd like to move this forward since nothing really got resolved.

I think Asko's suggestion of resurrecting Martins pull request for ZPT Fragments is an excellent suggestion.

https://github.com/plone/plone.app.theming/pull/10

I think it's good because 
1. it works WITH the p.a.theming story, rather against it. ie you use diazo until you need a small amount of python. You create a small fragment and include it in your theme. Users don't have to leave the diazo environment so this will reduce the learning curve. And it's deployable as a theme zip so again less learning.
2. It's more future/upgrade proof. You are patching what you want to change about an existing page, rather than overridding a complete template and then having to deal with issues during later upgrades.
3. It will work exactly the same in FS code as it does TTW
4. the code is there and can be merged for plone 5 (or sooner)
5. It's not incompatible with providing even easier (non developer) methods such as including tiles in a theme[1]. With both we'd have an even smoother learning curve.
6. It's different from how viewlets work but can be used for the same usecases. ie insert dynamic template into a page under conditions such as the contenttype. In fact the rules are more powerful than what viewlets allow since diazo rules can use anything on the rendered page.

I'd like to propose we deprecate or remove portal_customizations and introduce ZPT Fragments.


[1] https://github.com/plone/plone.app.theming/pull/10#issuecomment-33013057


Dylan Jay

---
www.pretagov.com - Secure SaaS for Government hosted locally.
P: +61-2-9955-2830  +44-87-0392-7071 | linkedin.com/in/djay75



On 12 Dec 2013, at 6:10 pm, Asko Soukka <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> how about replacing plone.app.customerize with ZPT Fragments?
> 
> https://github.com/plone/plone.app.theming/pull/10
> 
> That'd bring one more way to "define views", but only after two old ones (portal_skins and portal_view_customization) has been taken away. Also, all TTW methods would be in p.a.theming then.
> 
> -Asko
> 
> 
> Nathan Van Gheem wrote:
>> FWIW, it might be worth it posing this question on the plone users list.
>> 
>> Hard core developers are not usually the people we are targeting for simple site customizations TTW--we're targeting integrators, themers and newcomers. It's too bad we don't have more consensus on desiring to make the TTW story better--I think it's very important to the success and adoption of plone.
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 9:17 PM, Dylan Jay <djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected] <mailto:djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]>> wrote:
>> 
>>    On 12 Dec 2013, at 10:00 am, Lennart Regebro <[email protected]
>>    <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> 
>>    > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 6:18 AM, Dylan Jay <djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]
>>    <mailto:djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]>> wrote:
>>    >> However removing it and skins still leaves us with no core
>>    solution for templates :(
>>    >
>>    > Good!
>>    >
>>    >> We don't really have agreement on a replacement but I think we
>>    need one. zbot is not a TTW solution.
>>    >
>>    > We need less ways to define views, not more. If that means we
>>    drop TTW
>>    > solutions, so be it.
>> 
>>    I agree we need the total number of ways to define views to not grow.
>>    However just because you don't have a need for TTW solutions
>>    doesn't mean TTW isn't very important for Plone.
>> 
>>    I've given two talks so far on why we think TTW is very important
>>    for Plone and also why almost all client work we do is now TTW.
>>    Rather than repeat the same arguments again, if you have time,
>>    have a quick flip through the slides or watch the video.
>> 
>>    http://www.slideshare.net/djay/plone-the-open-source-cmsasaservice-platform
>>    http://www.slideshare.net/djay/ttw-ftw-plone-as-the-new-wordpress
>> 
>>    It's for these reasons I think this is a very important discussion
>>    and we need to get the future of defining views TTW right.
>>    IMO it needs to be
>>    - Easy learning curve if you are progressing from diazo
>>    - simple to understand. doesn't require deep understanding of how
>>    plone works.
>>    - allow you to work in almost the same way TTW and in FS.
>>    - be deployable in a theme zip or similar (as well as eggs)
>>    - capable enough that it could replace almost all existing FS
>>    template overrides, views etc so you could almost have a single
>>    way of working
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>    Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business.
>>    Most IT
>>    organizations don't have a clear picture of how application
>>    performance
>>    affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility
>>    into your
>>    Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of
>>    AppDynamics Pro!
>>    http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>>    <http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk>
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    Plone-developers mailing list
>>    Plone-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org
>>    <mailto:Plone-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>
>>    https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Nathan Van Gheem
>> Solutions Architect
>> Wildcard Corp
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT
>> organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance
>> affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your
>> Java,.NET,&  PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> _______________________________________________
>> Plone-developers mailing list
>> Plone-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between.
Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. 
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk