Re: do we need plone.app.customerize? was: [Plone-Users] Insufficient privileges on folder_contents

+1


On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:26 AM, Dylan Jay <djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'd like to move this forward since nothing really got resolved.
>
> I think Asko's suggestion of resurrecting Martins pull request for ZPT
> Fragments is an excellent suggestion.
>
> https://github.com/plone/plone.app.theming/pull/10
>
> I think it's good because
> 1. it works WITH the p.a.theming story, rather against it. ie you use
> diazo until you need a small amount of python. You create a small fragment
> and include it in your theme. Users don't have to leave the diazo
> environment so this will reduce the learning curve. And it's deployable as
> a theme zip so again less learning.
> 2. It's more future/upgrade proof. You are patching what you want to
> change about an existing page, rather than overridding a complete template
> and then having to deal with issues during later upgrades.
> 3. It will work exactly the same in FS code as it does TTW
> 4. the code is there and can be merged for plone 5 (or sooner)
> 5. It's not incompatible with providing even easier (non developer)
> methods such as including tiles in a theme[1]. With both we'd have an even
> smoother learning curve.
> 6. It's different from how viewlets work but can be used for the same
> usecases. ie insert dynamic template into a page under conditions such as
> the contenttype. In fact the rules are more powerful than what viewlets
> allow since diazo rules can use anything on the rendered page.
>
> I'd like to propose we deprecate or remove portal_customizations and
> introduce ZPT Fragments.
>
>
> [1]
> https://github.com/plone/plone.app.theming/pull/10#issuecomment-33013057
>
>
> Dylan Jay
>
> ---
> www.pretagov.com - Secure SaaS for Government hosted locally.
> P: +61-2-9955-2830  +44-87-0392-7071 | linkedin.com/in/djay75
>
>
>
> On 12 Dec 2013, at 6:10 pm, Asko Soukka <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > how about replacing plone.app.customerize with ZPT Fragments?
> >
> > https://github.com/plone/plone.app.theming/pull/10
> >
> > That'd bring one more way to "define views", but only after two old ones
> (portal_skins and portal_view_customization) has been taken away. Also, all
> TTW methods would be in p.a.theming then.
> >
> > -Asko
> >
> >
> > Nathan Van Gheem wrote:
> >> FWIW, it might be worth it posing this question on the plone users list.
> >>
> >> Hard core developers are not usually the people we are targeting for
> simple site customizations TTW--we're targeting integrators, themers and
> newcomers. It's too bad we don't have more consensus on desiring to make
> the TTW story better--I think it's very important to the success and
> adoption of plone.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 9:17 PM, Dylan Jay <djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected] <mailto:
> djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]>> wrote:
> >>
> >>    On 12 Dec 2013, at 10:00 am, Lennart Regebro <[email protected]
> >>    <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >>
> >>    > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 6:18 AM, Dylan Jay <djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]
> >>    <mailto:djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]>> wrote:
> >>    >> However removing it and skins still leaves us with no core
> >>    solution for templates :(
> >>    >
> >>    > Good!
> >>    >
> >>    >> We don't really have agreement on a replacement but I think we
> >>    need one. zbot is not a TTW solution.
> >>    >
> >>    > We need less ways to define views, not more. If that means we
> >>    drop TTW
> >>    > solutions, so be it.
> >>
> >>    I agree we need the total number of ways to define views to not grow.
> >>    However just because you don't have a need for TTW solutions
> >>    doesn't mean TTW isn't very important for Plone.
> >>
> >>    I've given two talks so far on why we think TTW is very important
> >>    for Plone and also why almost all client work we do is now TTW.
> >>    Rather than repeat the same arguments again, if you have time,
> >>    have a quick flip through the slides or watch the video.
> >>
> >>
> http://www.slideshare.net/djay/plone-the-open-source-cmsasaservice-platform
> >>    http://www.slideshare.net/djay/ttw-ftw-plone-as-the-new-wordpress
> >>
> >>    It's for these reasons I think this is a very important discussion
> >>    and we need to get the future of defining views TTW right.
> >>    IMO it needs to be
> >>    - Easy learning curve if you are progressing from diazo
> >>    - simple to understand. doesn't require deep understanding of how
> >>    plone works.
> >>    - allow you to work in almost the same way TTW and in FS.
> >>    - be deployable in a theme zip or similar (as well as eggs)
> >>    - capable enough that it could replace almost all existing FS
> >>    template overrides, views etc so you could almost have a single
> >>    way of working
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >> --
> >> Nathan Van Gheem
> >> Solutions Architect
> >> Wildcard Corp
> >>
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