Re: Plone 5.0b2-pending available for testing

I'd also like to consider not shipping with the option to have it
horizontal AND vertical. We should probably just default to supporting one
well thought out mode. Vertical and Horizontal menus have their ups and
downs...

On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 10:34 PM, Dylan Jay <djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]> wrote:

>
> > On 26 May 2015, at 2:26 am, Nathan Van Gheem <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > HV,
> >
> > Well, this particular issue isn't momentum killing. We are aware of
> it--just no one has figured a decent solution yet.
> > More people talking about it and thinking about it is helpful though :)
> >
> > I'm not sure I agree with you on the vertical. I actually enjoy using
> the left side variant.
> >
> > Dylan,
> >
> > We aren't using hover menus. You need to click to open.
>
> sorry you are right, its not hover. however one issue with a vertical menu
> is that the popout now requires to you go down, click then go back up. You
> end up travelling a lot and doing a uturn with your mouse which isn't so
> nice.
> Looks like hectors points are mostly about making current status visible.
>
Yes, this causes you to provide things in more clicks often to prevent the
uturns which power users usually don't appreciate.


> I have a couple of ideas which I'll find the right tickets to add them to
> but quickly (no need to respond).
> - One option would be to change it from a multiple submenus to a single
> extra ribbon/menu that you can expand and keep open. So the menu has 3
> modes. icons, icons text, icons, text and extra menu. That could solve some
> of hectors concerns of not seeing stuff and also my concern of the mouse
> uturn.
>
Yes, I've thought of this idea too. Additionally, the text + icons could be
stacked on top of each other so they take less horizontal space.

Really, we could just implement some of what the old CMSUI had... It took
up too much vertical space but kind of did what you're talking about. I'm
interested...


>   - It does however create another problem of having still too much stuff
> in this combined extra menu. I think we can aid in that by getting rid of
> the display menu. I believe this should now be a popup with a post request.
> We see a lot of issues around people not understanding display enough and I
> think it needs more text and explanation around it which we can do in a
> popup. I think the same is probably true of the state menu. I think its
> something that you don't do lightly and should be a popup. If you want to
> do it in bulk you can do it via contents.
>
I agree about display, not about state menu. I think a lot of users would
be annoyed by the extra clicks required just to publish an item.

Also, State *could*(maybe should) be added to the edit form(please don't
yell).


> - the other option is an open close accordion type menu. More similar to
> normal side navigation. There is a reason side nav is not popout but rather
> open/close. If the menu remembers which are open and closed you can
> effectively configure the menu to keep visible parts you are using often
> such as the add menu or the context status.


>
> >
> > Yes, doing something with the icons could work though!
> >
> > The menu isn't really responsive right now either. No matter way, when
> on mobile devices, it'll need to be swipe out on the left or right I think
> for mobile.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Nathan
> >
> > On May 25, 2015 2:15 PM, "Hector Velarde" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > On 05/25/2015 02:00 PM, Nathan Van Gheem wrote:
> > https://github.com/plone/Products.CMFPlone/issues
> >
> > HV> thanks! the first issue was already reported:
> >
> > https://github.com/plone/Products.CMFPlone/issues/411
> >
> > Click the plone icon to total text. Click upper top left to move from
> > side to top.
> >
> > HV> that was awesome! thanks!
> >
> > I think we need a control panel entry to set this on the site without
> > using the theme.
> >
> > HV> +1
> >
> > Yes, the way you go about things can be annoying and momentum killing
> > but you can be helpful too.
> >
> > HV> sorry, Nathan; I don't want to annoy anyone and I don't want to kill
> your momentum... but at some point we need to face reality and we better do
> it before the final release. the horizontal toolbar should be the default,
> IMO; I haven't tested it in depth, but it has to be better than the
> vertical one.
> >
> > No, you're not the only one who notices. I also mentioned it during the
> > UI/UX meeting. Most everyone that uses it knows it needs tweaking. There
> > just isn't an obvious best way to do it where the toolbar actually fits
> > decent widths when on top. If you know the perfect way to plan out the
> > toolbar buttons, please share.
> >
> > HV> no, I have no idea on how to solve it; I'm not an UI/usability
> expert but the issues the vertical toolbar causes are screaming at me every
> time I have tested Plone 5.
> >
> > the one thing I want to bring back here is that, IMO, we made a mistake
> by skipping the 4.4 release; Plone 5 brings many UI changes that are not
> tested with real users before including them on the core and we are risking
> here too much.
> >
> > releasing faster with few changes and making some of these changes
> optional for power users to test first, give us feedback earlier so we can
> fix broken ideas faster also.
> >
> > that's the way we went with Diazo and Dexterity and it proved to pay.
> >
> > having said that, I can tell you that Plone 5 is looking pretty fine
> now; last time I tested it was one of the earlier alpha releases and can
> see a difference here.
> >
> > thank you very much for the hard work you guys have done!
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud
> > Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
> > Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
> > Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
> >
> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y_______________________________________________
> > Plone-developers mailing list
> > Plone-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
>
>


-- 
Nathan Van Gheem
Solutions Architect
Wildcard Corp

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud 
Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y

_______________________________________________
Plone-developers mailing list
Plone-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers