Re: Plone 5.0b2-pending available for testing

I would also like to add that no UI is perfect. There will be compromises
for every decision we make.

On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 7:57 AM, Nathan Van Gheem <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Hector, this is not something we just decided to do overnight. The toolbar
> ideas have been floating around, discussed, show and worked on with stake
> holders, etc for probably 3 years now. CMSUI was the start of it.
>
> The Plone 4 UI wasn't great either and has many deficiencies. You and your
> users were just used to it.
>
> On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 7:42 AM, Hector Velarde <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> I made a compilation to avoid spamming you with my opinions.
>>
>> On 05/26/2015 12:34 AM, Dylan Jay wrote:
>>  > Looks like hectors points are mostly about making current status
>> visible.
>>
>> HV> no, those are just the most obvious issues and the other you
>> mention, the distance the mouse pointer has to travel from one click to
>> another, is also an issue that I had already noticed from the first time
>> I used the vertical toolbar.
>>
>> On 05/26/2015 01:02 AM, T. Kim Nguyen wrote:
>>  > Let people choose, even if you think one is better than the other.
>> Even > on Mac OS we can choose where to put the dock.
>>
>> HV> +1
>>
>> On 05/26/2015 01:03 AM, Nathan Van Gheem wrote:
>>  > It's not that simple. If providing both OOTB makes both less good, it
>>  > might not be a good idea to try and support both.
>>
>> HV> and that's why huge UI/UX changes should have been done in a
>> different way, letting people testing them in Plone 4.3 as add-ons, for
>> instance.
>>
>> my point here, Nathan, is that we have to avoid this kind of issues in
>> the future.
>>
>> we created this impasse when we decided to start running in search of
>> Plone 5 instead of walking fast: we opened too many fronts; we were
>> overwhelmed; we didn't get the feedback in time and when we got it, we
>> were unable to adjust to it.
>>
>> complex systems are non-linear and you need shorter feedback loops on
>> them; Plone is a complex system.
>>
>> On 05/26/2015 07:06 AM, Ramon Navarro Bosch wrote:
>>  > * Most wide screens are used , so more usage of the browser space
>>
>> HV> then the liquidness of the current theme must be fixed:
>>
>> https://github.com/plone/Products.CMFPlone/issues/528
>>
>>  > * On mobile the actual implementation ( a bit buggy but it should be
>>  > easy to solve ) needs to be vertical also so for using the same order
>>  > and make it easy to find options was good to maintain the vertical
>>  > toolbar on desktop
>>
>> HV> IMO, that's not a valid point as most content creators use desktop
>> computers, and most content consumers use mobile devices:
>>
>>
>> http://www.datamation.com/mobile-wireless/online-content-consumption-shifting-from-pcs-to-tablets.html
>>
>>  > It was more than one year ago, talking with rok about it that would be
>>  > great to have this option, the experience of other cms systems using
>>  > vertical bar and the reasons I pointed out made us decide to offer a
>>  > toolbar that has left vertical default behavior, with the option to put
>>  > on top.
>>
>> HV> I personally don't know in depth the content creation story of other
>> CMS, but I know the one on social networks and I already mentioned that
>> in a previous post, so my vision is limited here.
>>
>> on the other side, what I remember from having seen other CMS content
>> creation process is that it happens totally isolated from the final
>> viewing experience.
>>
>> last week we were demonstrating Plone for a new customer who is moving
>> away from Joomla! and they were really pleasured when they saw editing
>> not in a totally different screen, but in the same site layout.
>>
>>  > On the other hand, we now have three production big plone 5 sites ( and
>>  > some small ) and the users have never complained about it, most of them
>>
>> HV> good to hear that, but we need more feedback: what's the goal of the
>> site? what kind of content they are creating? were they using Plone 4
>> before? for how long? what do they like about the new interface? what do
>> they dislike? how they compare with the previous one? we need
>> UX/usability studies to evaluate the whole story.
>>
>>  > the left, some ideas like showing byline on the content area is a
>> matter
>>  > of skinning depending on the site.
>>
>> HV> it's the current default behavior and, as I already pointed out,
>> we're changing too many things on the UX.
>>
>> in the kind of sites we create (mainly news sites and government sites)
>> this behavior is the standard.
>>
>> On 05/26/2015 05:41 AM, Paul Roeland wrote:
>> > but let's at least wait for a bit more diversity in opinion: in two and
>> > a half weeks, Plone Symposium Tokyo takes place, perfect time to ask
>> > users and developers what their opinion is; it may be less arbitrary
>> > when your script runs not LTR. Then again, it may be, but let's ask.
>>
>> HV> +1
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Nathan Van Gheem
> Solutions Architect
> Wildcard Corp
>



-- 
Nathan Van Gheem
Solutions Architect
Wildcard Corp

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