Re: Mooball IT
Dylan Jay <djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]> Thu, 9 Apr 2015 09:21:15 +0700
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.web.zope.plone.website |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CANyGbve92XCT7BSiLL7O3XhJDgC0Lvpp1VOQcNVrx8_7rfOVLg@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============4974431111846531351== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f234557605c070513414df8 --e89a8f234557605c070513414df8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Or be involved in a monthly call with the marketing team with the plone.com effort in particular to help give perspective that plone should not be targeting the enterprise market as it requires high salesmanship and anyway the enterprise market is looking to wordpress as its simple and well supported. On 9 Apr 2015 09:02, "Dylan Jay" <djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, > > We are all doing it hard. Ultimately the best form of marketing is a > product that is more useful to more people so they recommend it to others= . > Its not so hard to restructure business to ensure that solving customer > problems is not solved using customer specific code. Instead we > deliberately decided where possible we are changing core plone, adding > features to other plugins or creating new generic plugins even if it mean= s > the cost is twice as much, in an attempt to make plone more useful. Its n= ot > so hard to do. > Asko is attempting to improve the theming story so they come with prebuil= t > content more like WordPress themes you get out of theme forest. > Contributing themes and testing to this effort would also help make plone > more competitive with WordPress. > On 9 Apr 2015 07:54, "beams [via Plone]" <[hidden email] > <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=3Dnode&node=3D7573587&i=3D0>> wrote: > >> Dylan, >> I spent many years supporting the Zope community in the early days, >> mostly thought help contributions in the lists. I attended sprints. I wa= s a >> contributor to very early Zope 3 and Im on the Zope Foundation. Ive >> released several open source products in the past. And I do all I can to >> promote Plone generally. >> >> Im doing what I can to attend and sent staff to Python and other open >> source conferences and meetings locally. But since I had a child and our >> business changed about 8 years ago Ive struggled to find time and financ= es >> to be more active. Dylan, I see the great work you do, the products you >> develop and the general promotion of Plone in Australia, and I genuinely >> wish I was in a position to do the same. I do regret that and Im very >> aware of it. >> >> I am always looking for new clients to convert to Plone and its certainl= y >> not my intention to 'poach'. Im sorry you feel that way. >> >> To everyone in the community, Im really sorry if Ive upset you. In the >> past few weeks Ive contacted quite a few. Ive found some new contacts in >> the Plone community and chatted and shared experiences and ideas. Ive fo= und >> a quite a few site owners who were doing it alone and are in need of hel= p. >> Ive found a frightening number of sites moving away from Plone. And Ive = had >> a just a two angry responses. >> >> Please accept my apologies. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Dylan Jay <[hidden email] >> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=3Dnode&node=3D7573586&i=3D0>> wrote: >> >>> Tom, >>> I have never once seen you contribute to the community in the many year= s >>> you have taken from it. Perhaps now is the time to do so as part of plo= ne >>> marketing. I'm sure the marketing would welcome you and your companies >>> support. Or alternatively sponsoring the foundation so they have money = for >>> more marketing as we have done. This is a form of paying for the softwa= re >>> you have built your business on. >>> The very least you could do is try to get new clients instead of poach >>> your competitors existing clients. That grows nothing. >>> On 9 Apr 2015 07:03, "Tom Cameron" <[hidden email] >>> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=3Dnode&node=3D7573586&i=3D1>> wrote: >>> >>>> Phil, >>>> >>>> In closing, I would like you to ask yourself just one question - how >>>>> would the Plone ecosystem look to our clients and users if we all did= this? >>>> >>>> >>>> Most likely it would be a bigger, more active and growing eco system >>>> instead of the current frustrating slow death we are experiencing. >>>> >>>> The primary reason I lose new tenders is because I have to spend so >>>> much time educating people about what Plone is before I can even propo= se a >>>> solution. Most business just compare overall usage of technologies and= the >>>> likes of WordPress win hands down - despite being hopelessly inferior >>>> technology. >>>> >>>> And the primary reason I lose current clients is because they move awa= y >>>> from Plone to WordPress - and the reason they cite is the fear that th= ere >>>> is just no support out there for Plone. That it is far too risky to pu= t >>>> their faith in a technology that nobody users. >>>> >>>> If they were to get regular emails from an active community then they >>>> would see that there is support out there and choices and while that m= ay >>>> keep me 'on my toes', I would much prefer some decent competition than= to >>>> have clients walk away to an inferior solution purely due to fear that= they >>>> are on a sinking ship. >>>> >>>> Many of the people Ive emailed recently have said (paraphrased) "I wis= h >>>> you had contacted us a few months ago - we could not get the support w= e >>>> needed so we have moved to WordPress". >>>> >>>> If we all dont vastly increase our promotion of Plone then Im pretty >>>> certain there will be no ecosystem at all in 5 years time. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- >>>> BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT >>>> Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard >>>> Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live >>>> exercises >>>> http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- >>>> event?utm_ >>>> source=3DSourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15&utm_medium=3Demail&utm_campaign= =3DVA_SF >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Plone-website mailing list >>>> [hidden email] <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=3Dnode&node=3D7573586&= i=3D2> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-website >>>> The Wiki: http://plone.org/development/current/projects/WebsiteTeam >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ >> >> BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT >> Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard >> Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live >> exercises >> http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?u= tm_ >> >> source=3DSourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15&utm_medium=3Demail&utm_campaign=3DV= A_SF >> _______________________________________________ >> Plone-website mailing list >> [hidden email] <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=3Dnode&node=3D7573586&i= =3D3> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-website >> The Wiki: http://plone.org/development/current/projects/WebsiteTeam >> >> ------------------------------ >> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the >> discussion below: >> http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Mooball-IT-tp7573559p7573586.html >> To start a new topic under plone.org Web Site, email [hidden email] >> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=3Dnode&node=3D7573587&i=3D1> >> To unsubscribe from plone.org Web Site, click here. >> NAML >> <http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=3Dmacr= o_viewer&id=3Dinstant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=3Dnabble.naml.namespa= ces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web= .template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=3Dnotify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.n= aml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemai= l.naml> >> > > ------------------------------ > View this message in context: Re: Mooball IT > <http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Mooball-IT-tp7573559p7573587.html> > Sent from the plone.org Web Site mailing list archive > <http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/plone-org-Web-Site-f293363.html> at > Nabble.com. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- > BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT > Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard > Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live > exercises > http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- > event?utm_ > source=3DSourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15&utm_medium=3Demail&utm_campaign=3DVA= _SF > _______________________________________________ > Plone-website mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-website > The Wiki: http://plone.org/development/current/projects/WebsiteTeam > --e89a8f234557605c070513414df8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <p dir=3D"ltr">Or be involved in a monthly call with the marketing team wit= h the <a href=3D"http://plone.com">plone.com</a> effort in particular to he= lp give perspective that plone should not be targeting the enterprise marke= t as it requires high salesmanship and anyway the enterprise market is look= ing to wordpress as its simple and well supported. </p> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 9 Apr 2015 09:02, "Dylan Jay" <<= a href=3D"mailto:djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]">djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br typ= e=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .= 8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"ltr">Hi,</p> <p dir=3D"ltr">We are all doing it hard. Ultimately the best form of market= ing is a product that is more useful to more people so they recommend it to= others. Its not so hard to restructure business to ensure that solving cus= tomer problems is not solved using customer specific code. Instead we delib= erately decided where possible we are changing core plone, adding features = to other plugins or creating new generic plugins even if it means the cost = is twice as much, in an attempt to make plone more useful. Its not so hard = to do.<br> Asko is attempting to improve the theming story so they come with prebuilt = content more like WordPress themes you get out of theme forest. Contributin= g themes and testing to this effort would also help make plone more competi= tive with WordPress. </p> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 9 Apr 2015 07:54, "beams [via Plone]&quo= t; <<a href=3D"http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=3Dnode&node=3D7573587= &i=3D0" rel=3D"nofollow" link=3D"external" target=3D"_blank">[hidden em= ail]</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote style=3D"border-lef= t:2px solid #cccccc;padding:0 1em" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div dir=3D"ltr">Dylan,<div>I spent many years supporting the Zope communi= ty in the early days, mostly thought help contributions in the lists. I att= ended sprints. I was a contributor to very early Zope 3 and Im on the Zope = Foundation. Ive released several open source products in the past. And I do= all I can to promote Plone generally.</div><div><br></div><div>Im doing wh= at I can to attend and sent staff to Python and other open source conferenc= es and meetings locally. But since I had a child and our business changed a= bout 8 years ago Ive struggled to find time and finances to be more active.= Dylan, I see the great work you do, the products you develop and the gener= al promotion of Plone in Australia, and I genuinely wish I was in a positio= n to do the same.=C2=A0 I do regret that and Im very aware of it.=C2=A0</di= v><div><br></div><div>I am always looking for new clients to convert to Plo= ne and its certainly not my intention to 'poach'. Im sorry you feel= that way.=C2=A0<br></div><div><br></div><div>To everyone in the community,= Im really sorry if Ive upset you. In the past few weeks Ive contacted quit= e a few. Ive found some new contacts in the Plone community and chatted and= shared experiences and ideas. Ive found a quite a few site owners who were= doing it alone and are in need of help. Ive found a frightening number of = sites moving away from Plone. And Ive had a just a two angry responses.</di= v><div><br></div><div>Please accept my apologies.</div><div><br></div><div>= <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu,= Apr 9, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Dylan Jay <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"http:/= //user/SendEmail.jtp?type=3Dnode&node=3D7573586&i=3D0" rel=3D"nofol= low" link=3D"external" target=3D"_blank">[hidden email]</a>></span> wrot= e:<br><blockquote style=3D"border-left:2px solid #cccccc;padding:0 1em" cla= ss=3D"gmail_quote"><p dir=3D"ltr">Tom, <br> I have never once seen you contribute to the community in the many years yo= u have taken from it. Perhaps now is the time to do so as part of plone mar= keting. I'm sure the marketing would welcome you and your companies sup= port. Or alternatively sponsoring the foundation so they have money for mor= e marketing as we have done. This is a form of paying for the software you = have built your business on.<br> The very least you could do is try to get new clients instead of poach your= competitors existing clients. That grows nothing. </p> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div>On 9 Apr 2015 07:03, "Tom Cameron= " <<a href=3D"http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=3Dnode&node=3D757= 3586&i=3D1" rel=3D"nofollow" link=3D"external" target=3D"_blank">[hidde= n email]</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"></div></div><blockquote sty= le=3D"border-left:2px solid #cccccc;padding:0 1em" class=3D"gmail_quote"><d= iv><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Phil,<div><br></div><div><blockquote style=3D"bord= er-left:2px solid #cccccc;padding:0 1em" class=3D"gmail_quote"><span style= =3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);font-size:12.8000001907349px">In closing, I would li= ke you to ask yourself just one question - how would the Plone ecosystem lo= ok to our clients and users if we all did this?</span></blockquote><div cla= ss=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br>Most likely it would be a= bigger, more active and growing eco system instead of the current frustrat= ing slow death we are experiencing.=C2=A0<br><br>The primary reason I lose = new tenders is because I have to spend so much time educating people about = what Plone is before I can even propose a solution. Most business just comp= are overall usage of technologies and the likes of WordPress win hands down= - despite being hopelessly inferior technology.<br><br>And the primary rea= son I lose current clients is because they move away from Plone to WordPres= s - and the reason they cite is the fear that there is just no support out = there for Plone. That it is far too risky to put their faith in a technolog= y that nobody users.=C2=A0<br><br>If they were to get regular emails from a= n active community then they would see that there is support out there and = choices and while that may keep me 'on my toes', I would much prefe= r some decent competition than to have clients walk away to an inferior sol= ution purely due to fear that they are on a sinking ship.<br><br>Many of th= e people Ive emailed recently have said (paraphrased) "I wish you had = contacted us a few months ago - we could not get the support we needed so w= e have moved to WordPress".<br><br>If we all dont vastly increase our = promotion of Plone then Im pretty certain there will be no ecosystem at all= in 5 years time.<br><br>--<br>Tom<br></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div= dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:r= gb(255,255,255)"><span style=3D"font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse;fon= t-family:arial,sans-serif"><div></div></span></span></div></div></div></div= > </div></div></div> <br></div></div>-----------------------------------------------------------= -------------------<br> BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT<br> Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard<br> Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercise= s<br> <a href=3D"http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual-= " rel=3D"nofollow" link=3D"external" target=3D"_blank">http://www.bonitasof= t.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual-</a> event?utm_<br> source=3DSourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15&utm_medium=3Demail&utm_campaig= n=3DVA_SF<br>_______________________________________________<br> Plone-website mailing list<br> <a href=3D"http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=3Dnode&node=3D7573586&i= =3D2" rel=3D"nofollow" link=3D"external" target=3D"_blank">[hidden email]</= a><br> <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-website" rel= =3D"nofollow" link=3D"external" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge= .net/lists/listinfo/plone-website</a><br> The Wiki: <a href=3D"http://plone.org/development/current/projects/WebsiteT= eam" rel=3D"nofollow" link=3D"external" target=3D"_blank">http://plone.org/= development/current/projects/WebsiteTeam</a><br></blockquote></div> </blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div><div><div dir=3D"lt= r"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;backgr= ound-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style=3D"font-size:13px;border-collapse:= collapse;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><div></div></span></span></div></div= ></div></div> </div></div> <br>-----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- <br>BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT <br>Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard <br>Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exer= cises <br><a href=3D"http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virt= ual-" rel=3D"nofollow" link=3D"external" target=3D"_blank">http://www.bonit= asoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual-</a>=C2=A0event?utm_ <br>source=3DSourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15&utm_medium=3Demail&utm_cam= paign=3DVA_SF<br>_______________________________________________ <br>Plone-website mailing list <br><a href=3D"http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=3Dnode&node=3D7573586&am= p;i=3D3" rel=3D"nofollow" link=3D"external" target=3D"_blank">[hidden email= ]</a> <br><a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-website" = rel=3D"nofollow" link=3D"external" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourcefo= rge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-website</a><br>The Wiki: <a href=3D"http://plo= ne.org/development/current/projects/WebsiteTeam" rel=3D"nofollow" link=3D"e= xternal" target=3D"_blank">http://plone.org/development/current/projects/We= bsiteTeam</a> =09 =09 =09 <br> <br> <hr noshade size=3D"1" color=3D"#cccccc"> <div style=3D"color:#444;font:12px tahoma,geneva,helvetica,arial,sans-seri= f"> <div style=3D"font-weight:bold">If you reply to this email, your message = will be added to the discussion below:</div> <a href=3D"http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Mooball-IT-tp7573559p7573586= .html" rel=3D"nofollow" link=3D"external" target=3D"_blank">http://plone.29= 3351.n2.nabble.com/Mooball-IT-tp7573559p7573586.html</a> </div> <div style=3D"color:#666;font:11px tahoma,geneva,helvetica,arial,sans-seri= f;margin-top:.4em;line-height:1.5em"> To start a new topic under <a href=3D"http://plone.org" rel=3D"nofollow" = link=3D"external" target=3D"_blank">plone.org</a> Web Site, email <a href= =3D"http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=3Dnode&node=3D7573587&i=3D1" re= l=3D"nofollow" link=3D"external" target=3D"_blank">[hidden email]</a> <br> To unsubscribe from <a href=3D"http://plone.org" rel=3D"nofollow" link=3D= "external" target=3D"_blank">plone.org</a> Web Site, <a rel=3D"nofollow" li= nk=3D"external">click here</a>.<br> <a href=3D"http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?mac= ro=3Dmacro_viewer&id=3Dinstant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=3Dna= bble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespac= e-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=3Dnotify_subscribe= rs%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_= email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml" rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"font:9px serif" link= =3D"external" target=3D"_blank">NAML</a> </div></blockquote></div> =09 =09 =09 <br><hr align=3D"left" width=3D"300"> View this message in context: <a href=3D"http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/= Mooball-IT-tp7573559p7573587.html" target=3D"_blank">Re: Mooball IT</a><br> Sent from the <a href=3D"http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/plone-org-Web-Si= te-f293363.html" target=3D"_blank">plone.org Web Site mailing list archive<= /a> at Nabble.com.<br><br>-------------------------------------------------= -----------------------------<br> BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT<br> Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard<br> Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercise= s<br> <a href=3D"http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual-= " target=3D"_blank">http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp= -virtual-</a> event?utm_<br> source=3DSourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15&utm_medium=3Demail&utm_campaig= n=3DVA_SF<br>_______________________________________________<br> Plone-website mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Plone-website@lists.= sourceforge.net</a><br> <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-website" targ= et=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-website</a= ><br> The Wiki: <a href=3D"http://plone.org/development/current/projects/WebsiteT= eam" target=3D"_blank">http://plone.org/development/current/projects/Websit= eTeam</a><br></blockquote></div> --e89a8f234557605c070513414df8-- --===============4974431111846531351== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_ source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=VA_SF --===============4974431111846531351== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Plone-website mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-website The Wiki: http://plone.org/development/current/projects/WebsiteTeam --===============4974431111846531351==--