Re: Results after talking with Barry

Hello fellow Zmailmaniacs,

Thank you very much to everyone who wrote in about the project goals
for zmailman.

Stephan Richter <[email protected]> wrote in part:

> 1. We should go ahead and implement the entire data structure in Zope with 
> all bells and whistles. As long as the names do not change, we will not 
> have any worry about the Mailman integrity.
> 
> 2. We should go ahead and use Mailman 2.1 due to its obvious advantages.

I hear Barry likes the idea of using Mailman 2.1. ;-)

Sounds like the goal is NOT to do just a quick and dirty hack, and NOT
to fork Mailman, but to write code that will become a part of the
Mailman distribution, possibly starting in Mailman 2.1.

It also sounds like the Mailman hackers welcome zmailman as a contribution
to their efforts.

Would it be possible to get the following?

 1) A branch on the Mailman CVS for zmailman.  This will provide one
    central repository for all design docs and code for our project.
    If you want my help, I'll need everything in one place so that
    I can do a cvs checkout and updates to stay up to date with what
    is going on.

 2) An announcement on the appropriate mailing lists that this
    project is happening.  This will be an opportunity to recruit
    some more folks, and spread the word about the goal of the
    zmailman project.  I think we need something on zope-dev and
    on the main mailman development list, whatever it is called.
    We might also want to make an announcement on a Python list.
    I think we need more person hours to make this project happen.
    In order to get those hours, we have to let people know what
    we're doing and how they can help.

 3) Space on the Mailman web site.  In addition to the CVS branch,
    we need a place for our project description, download packages,
    screen shots, etc.  If we're not going to fork, we should use
    the Mailman web site instead of Sourceforge or some other
    random site.  If getting write access to the Mailman web site
    is impossible, we should at least get a link from the Mailman
    web site to our own web site.

    I suppose we should also put something on a Zope web site
    somewhere, since zmailman is ultimately just a Zope product.
    But I understand that zope.org is due for a major overhaul,
    so maybe we could wait on that one.

    In any case, we need to think through and make the case for
    zmailman somewhere, and this somewhere should be on a web
    site linked to both Mailman and Zope somehow.

> 3. I think someone (probably me, even though I would love someone else to 
> do it) should finish the UML, so Mailman will have nice Docs and we will 
> stay sane with all these attributes floating around.

Um, what is a UML?  (Can you tell I got my CS degree in the 1980s? ;-)

I assume the UML is a diagram of the data structures of Mailman.  Does
this mean that the data structures of Mailman are currently
undocumented, or is the UML some special way to document the data
structures that will shed goodness and light on zmailman?

Maybe the first thing would be for someone to summarize the current
state of Mailman 2.1.  Here are my questions:

 1) Is there a project plan for Mailman 2.1?
 2) What are the design goals for 2.1?
 3) Who is working on 2.1?
 4) When will 2.1 'final' be released?

I also want to understand the 'Z' in zmailman.  (By the way, can
we use all lowercase for ZMailman or is that a faux pas?)

Which version of Zope are we targeting?

Just to be brutally self-centered, let me say at the outset that I'm going
to be splitting my cycles on Zope / Mailman stuff between zmailman and our
own internal project at EcoAccess to just get the darn thing working
already (i.e., calling the Mailman CGI scripts through a Zope external
method that will work with Zope 2.3.3).

I just want to make sure I understand the goal for zmailman, namely that
we will produce a product for Zope 2.5.0 or better that works with Mailman
2.1 or better.  Thus, we are shooting at two moving targets (not to
mention the moving target of Python 2.x underneath it all).  Should be
interesting!

To sum up, here's what I'd like to see happen:

 1) Project participants be given write access to a CVS repository,
    preferably a branch on the Mailman CVS server so we can begin
    checking in code to a central location.

 2) Someone write up the "official" project announcement (including
    the goals of the project and the fact that the Mailman folks think
    this is a Good Thing) and post it everywhere potential developers
    and / or paying clients might be lurking.

 3) Someone write up some HTML pages to create an online presence
    for the project, and link those pages in to the main Mailman
    web site.  We need to think through what zmailman will do for
    people, and explain it on the project pages.

Then, let's get some code in the CVS repository and start hacking!

Does this sound good to anyone?  Hey, where's everyone going? ;-)
Fred
-- 
Fred Wilson Horch			mailto:[email protected]
Executive Director, EcoAccess		http://ecoaccess.org/
P.O. Box 2823, Durham, NC 27715-2823	phone: 919.419-8567