Re: .NET vs. Java
"McClelland, Russ" <[email protected]> Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:20:10 -0500
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.windows.devel.dotnet.advocacy |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <A4BF28BD97B8D211BC5D0090273D1CDF0FE8827A@DALEXCH02> |
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C24538.695E0650 Content-Type: text/plain Yes, the investment in dollars is great for Wintel considering you get the app server (COM+) and the web server (IIS) for free. We have a (very) few WebSphere projects that run on Wintel here, and the first question that comes to mind when they start another is: Why pay $10,000 per CPU for WebSphere when; 1. You don't need an AppServer to run ASP/ASP.Net pages (they currently don't use EJBs, only need WebSphere to run JSPs and servlets) 2. How well are we going to be able to manage IBM's apache web sites from IIS Manager... You can't which means more money for management tools. 3. How well will WebSphere work with Windows Load Balancing Service (for clustering)? We don't know yet so it may be MORE money to get a hardware clustering solution like BigIP. Considering that ASP.Net raises the bar for web development and ushers in a new paradigm for weblications that makes them much easier to develop, manage and deploy, I can't see the J2EE benefits... -----Original Message----- From: Schram, James [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 9:21 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DOTNET-ADVOCACY] .NET vs. Java Russ, We are definitely a Wintel shop and from what I can tell, that won't be changing any time soon. The introduction of J2EE (& related app servers, etc.) would require a substantial investment, not only in $, but also in education or additional staff, not only be the development team, but also for the group that supports the infrastructure. In my mind this would amount to be a very big cost, which is why I was curious to find out how the two platforms compared in terms of features and benefits. To undertake such an investment, I would think the promises of J2EE would have to be extremely appealing. Thanks again for your thoughts. Jim -----Original Message----- From: McClelland, Russ [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 8:42 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DOTNET-ADVOCACY] .NET vs. Java Don't know of many articles that are un-biased. The (very) few that I have come across are just wrong (stating stuff like you can't do stateful components in COM+ and other falicies regarding the J2EE platform as well), or they trump up the importance of Entity Beans on J2EE. As someone that has been a CIO and a developer, I would offer this advice: If your hardware and OS is Wintel, choose MS tools. If you don't, you will never (no matter what other people will tell you) fully leverage the tools you have already invested in. And while you may be able to do lots of things with J2EE, you will spend more time developing and leverage your platform than you will with MS tools. If you want to squeeze every penny out of ROI, choose the tools that match your platform. Once you choose a platform, the chances of your enterprise adopting another one is slim, the chances of your enterprise supplementing may be high, but the cost of completely replacing systems is too high to worry about the WORA (myth). -----Original Message----- From: Schram, James [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 8:04 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [DOTNET-ADVOCACY] .NET vs. Java Hi All, The company I am employed by (I've only been here a month) is un-decided on what path to choose: .Net or Java. The IT shop is mostly Microsoft (SQL Server, VB, ASP). Over the last year, the person I replaced was investigating Java - to the point where some money was spent on purchasing tools and developing the beginnings of a framework, but other than that, no major financial investments have been made. Since the individual with the majority of java knowledge has left, the company is again revisiting the decision. The remaining IT staff is well versed with Microsoft tools and technologies with very little exposure to Java. I've Googled ".NET vs Java" with a lot of returns. But a lot of what I have read has come from biased sources (on both sides of the argument). Can anyone recommend some articles or sites that attempt to treat the subject without bias that list the criteria and how each platform measures up? Thanks, Jim ------_=_NextPart_001_01C24538.695E0650 Content-Type: text/html <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <TITLE>Message</TITLE> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=526301715-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Yes, the investment in dollars is great for Wintel considering you get the app server (COM+) and the web server (IIS) for free. We have a (very) few WebSphere projects that run on Wintel here, and the first question that comes to mind when they start another is:</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=526301715-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=526301715-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Why pay $10,000 per CPU for WebSphere when;</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=526301715-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>1. You don't need an AppServer to run ASP/ASP.Net pages (they currently don't use EJBs, only need WebSphere to run JSPs and servlets)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=526301715-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>2. How well are we going to be able to manage IBM's apache web sites from IIS Manager... You can't which means more money for management tools.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=526301715-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>3. How well will WebSphere work with Windows Load Balancing Service (for clustering)? We don't know yet so it may be MORE money to get a hardware clustering solution like BigIP.</FONT> </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=526301715-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=526301715-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Considering that ASP.Net raises the bar for web development and ushers in a new paradigm for weblications that makes them much easier to develop, manage and deploy, I can't see the J2EE benefits...</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=526301715-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=526301715-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=526301715-16082002> </SPAN>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Schram, James [mailto:[email protected]] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 16, 2002 9:21 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [email protected]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [DOTNET-ADVOCACY] .NET vs. Java<BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV><SPAN class=796001314-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Russ,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=796001314-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=796001314-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>We are definitely a Wintel shop and from what I can tell, that won't be changing any time soon.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=796001314-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=796001314-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The introduction of J2EE (& related app servers, etc.) would require a substantial investment, not only in $, but also in education or additional staff, not only be the development team, but also for the group that supports the infrastructure. In my mind this would amount to be a very big cost, which is why I was curious to find out how the two platforms compared in terms of features and benefits. To undertake such an investment, I would think the promises of J2EE would have to be extremely appealing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=796001314-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=796001314-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Thanks again for your thoughts.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=796001314-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=796001314-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Jim</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> McClelland, Russ [mailto:[email protected]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 16, 2002 8:42 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [email protected]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [DOTNET-ADVOCACY] .NET vs. Java<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=020493913-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Don't know of many articles that are un-biased. The (very) few that I have come across are just wrong (stating stuff like you can't do stateful components in COM+ and other falicies regarding the J2EE platform as well), or they trump up the importance of Entity Beans on J2EE.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=020493913-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=020493913-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>As someone that has been a CIO and a developer, I would offer this advice: If your hardware and OS is Wintel, choose MS tools. If you don't, you will never (no matter what other people will tell you) fully leverage the tools you have already invested in. And while you may be able to do lots of things with J2EE, you will spend more time developing and leverage your platform than you will with MS tools. If you want to squeeze every penny out of ROI, choose the tools that match your platform. Once you choose a platform, the chances of your enterprise adopting another one is slim, the chances of your enterprise supplementing may be high, but the cost of completely replacing systems is too high to worry about the WORA (myth).</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=020493913-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=020493913-16082002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Schram, James [mailto:[email protected]] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 16, 2002 8:04 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [email protected]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [DOTNET-ADVOCACY] .NET vs. Java<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=929305112-16082002><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi All,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=929305112-16082002><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=929305112-16082002><FONT face=Arial size=2>The company I am employed by (I've only been here a month) is un-decided on what path to choose: .Net or Java. The IT shop is mostly Microsoft (SQL Server, VB, ASP). Over the last year, the person I replaced was investigating Java - to the point where some money was spent on purchasing tools and developing the beginnings of a framework, but other than that, no major financial investments have been made. Since the individual with the majority of java knowledge has left, the company is again revisiting the decision. The remaining IT staff is well versed with Microsoft tools and technologies with very little exposure to Java.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=929305112-16082002><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=929305112-16082002><FONT face=Arial size=2>I've Googled ".NET vs Java" with a lot of returns. But a lot of what I have read has come from biased sources (on both sides of the argument). </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=929305112-16082002><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=929305112-16082002><FONT face=Arial size=2>Can anyone recommend some articles or sites that attempt to treat the subject without bias that list the criteria and how each platform measures up?</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=929305112-16082002><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=929305112-16082002><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=929305112-16082002><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=929305112-16082002><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jim</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C24538.695E0650--