Re: JIRA

My point is that requiring users to download two separate projects to
perform a core operation (querying) is not going to be perceived well. We're
forcing users to worry about compatibility issues between NH.Core and
NH.Contrib. It should just work, but inevitably we'll get questions about
it. You can declare that NH.Core and NH.Contrib are equally important, but
the reality is that people will perceive NH.Contrib as a second-class
citizen. This is more a perception issue than a technology issue.

Yes, NH support for generics still needs more work, but we've got something
there and that something is valuable. For most users, it just works. I would
like to see the same thing with LINQ2NH. Users should be able to download
NH.Core, create a reference to NHibernate.dll and write a LINQ query. (OK,
I'm skipping everyone's favourite steps - mapping and configuration - but
you get the idea.)

James
--
James Kovacs, B.Sc., M.Sc., MCSD, MCT
Microsoft MVP - C# Architecture
http://www.jameskovacs.com
[email protected]
403-397-3177 (mobile)

On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Fabio Maulo <[email protected]> wrote:

> 2008/7/10 James Kovacs <[email protected]>:
>
>> Interesting about the performance, but let me toss in a few comments
>> regarding perceptions... If we want to drive wider adoption of NH,
>> LINQ-to-NHibernate has to be in NH.Core. There is a lot of interest in
>> LINQ-to-NHibernate as Microsoft is pushing LINQ really hard. I understand
>> your concerns with the current implementation, Fabio. I don't understand why
>> we can't use the current implementation and swap it out later when
>> ExprTree->SQL is working.
>
>
> And at the same time I don't see which is the problem to have the actual
> implementation of NHibernate.LINQ in contrib and download and use it from
> there.
>
>
>> Imagine if we took a hard line with NH Generics. They're not as
>> performant. They can't go in Core. If you want to use generics, then
>> download this extra package (NH.Contrib). We would have made adoption that
>> much harder for the average developer. Same holds true of LINQ-to-NHibernate
>> IMHO. If it isn't in NH.Core, fewer people will use it and (I suspect) many
>> developers and managers will discount NH because it doesn't have "native"
>> LINQ support like the Microsoft products.
>
>
> Why ? Projects in NH-Contrib are not less important of NH-Core.
> NHC have only a different idiosyncrasy and many NH committers are
> committers in NHC too.
> NH is not a commercial product... it is OSS and we can implement LINQ2NH in
> the right way without any kind of commercial pressure.
> About generic please... be careful we still not support generics in HQL,
> generic userType, generic entity, generic colloctions have copy&paste (less
> copy&paste in trunk)... do you really think NH support generics ?
> or we are only giving the sensation we are suppoting it ? (like
> multi-threading give the sensation that one CPU can do more than one thing
> at the same times).
> I don't remember where but if a well remember Oren said that he would like
> to have something different than actual implementation of NHibernate.LINQ.
> If who start the project say "I would like have a different implementation"
> why don't try something different after one year of experience ?
>
> I think/hope OSS is the place where developers give their best, for
> passion. Passion is the force of OSS.
> We are little, few, poor, dirty and ugly but with a great future.
> --
> Fabio Maulo
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