RE: Invitation

OK, Sven brings up a good point, documentation.  While all the protocol docs
are great, it is a bit like learning a complex piece of software from a
reference manual.  It is possible to do and doing so gives you a great deal
of knowledge about the software.  The problem is that is takes so much
effort that most people would become discouraged.

I think a developer FAQ (like DJGPP has) would be a great idea.  As
questions arise (they seem to repeat quite a bit ;-) they could be added to
the fact by it's maintainer.  A response to most questions could then be
slimmed down to "see section 12.1-12.3 of the developers FAQ".  It takes
time (and effort of course ;-) to build this up, but it is well worth it in
the long run.  Anyone who has used DJGPP or programmed for it knows that
their are few developers their and they too are very busy.  It seems to work
pretty well for them...

Just my 3 cents ;-)
KJohn

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf
> Of Sven Luther
> Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 2:15 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [forum] Invitation
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 05, 2003 at 07:57:42AM +0100, Andrew C Aitchison wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, Sven Luther wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 06:24:03PM -0000, Rob Taylor wrote:
> > > > > I don't recall if you discussed the issue on any of the public
> > > > > mailing lists
> > > > > (at that time, "xpert" would have been the relevant list).
> > > >
> > > > I did, and questioned a number of times why no one had
> replied to my posts.
> > >
> > > Maybe a solution of this seemingly lack of response for more or less
> > > advanced help asked on the xfree86 lists, would be to create a new
> > > mailing list, a bit like the debian-mentor one, which would be a forum
> > > for beginer xfree86 hackers or something such, where you could ask
> > > questions about technical issues you need help with without
> being afraid
> > > to bother the more advanced members of the team, and without
> the problem
> > > of asking a question and never getting a response, which may well
> > > discourage potential future developpers.
> >
> > How does debian-mentor work ?
> > My impression is that the problem with this is the you *have to*
> > bother the more advanced members of the team because they are the only
> > people who can help.
>
> Well, debian is different, we have 800+ developpers, and a host of
> wanabee developpers, who read debian-mentors and respond to questions
> there.
>
> Sure, you need a certain amount of of senior developpers, but often the
> questions the newbie ask are all the same again, and other people,
> having struggled with the same problems and know the answers and can
> respond.
>
> And also, it helps to increase quality of the experienced developpers
> has well. Even i, who have been with the debian project since 98, i
> often ask some questions there about a topic i am not very competent
> with, and get good answer instead of the deafening silence that usually
> greats one when asking questions on the xfree86-devel list.
>
> But again, debian is different, it is a much more larger scope projects,
> which things like policy and area of packaging being much more dynamic,
> and even old-time developper often have to struggle to keep up with the
> many changes happening all over.
>
> > In a similar way I think that the xpert list got so full of newbie
> > questions because the experts didn't read newbie, and newbies couldn't
> > answer each other's questions.
>
> Well, my idea was more about a list for the wanabee Xfree86 developpers,
> but it could work for the XFree86 users too. Consider another example,
> that of the Objective caml language. There is an official ocaml list. It
> was used at first mostly for the ocaml developpment team, and the small
> group of users, discution there was mostly of a language-theory nature,
> and very high level. As the language gained more popularity, there was
> more and more newbie questions, which anoyed a part of the previous user
> groups. So a second group was setup were newbie gathered and asked
> questions, and if nobody knew the answer, then the question was
> repeated, after a time, on the developpment list. It works pretty well.
>
> Now, as said, my proposal was not so much for the users, nor for user
> questions, for which there often is a host of other forums as well, but
> for a developper specific questions. How many time has someone asked a
> question on the xfree86-devel mailing list, and nobody ever bothered to
> answer ? How many even are afraid to ask questions there and prefer to
> struggle alone in their dark corner afraid of rejection ?
>
> Also, one of the problem of the xfree86 project is a rather lack of
> interested developpers, which in much part is due to the fact that there
> is a high barrier of entry. The only way to solve that is to find a way
> to be more attractive to newbie developper, and altough the lack of docs
> is a big handicap, setting up such a list as a kind of
> developper-nursery is a good way to change that, and even if some of the
> more experienced members have to take some time to respond to the more
> difficult questions and to give the first impulse at least. After a time
> this involvement will become less and less, as more newbie will become
> more mature X developpers and have more capacity of responding to others
> questions.
>
> But all in all, it is an effort well worth doing, and i don't think it
> will take more time from the experienced developpers than lost in
> endless flamewars and such, and it will be more productive also.
>
> Friendly,
>
> Sven Luther
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