Re: Re: A strawman proposal for X.org & XFree86.org

On Sunday 30 March 2003 20:48, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
|  On Sun, Mar 30, 2003 at 07:23:47PM +0400, Vadim Plessky wrote:
|  > Well, GNOME and KDE cover together about 95% of Linux Desktops.
|
|  Where did you get this estimate from?

That number has been discussed/quoted many times.
Estimation I have seen and feel comfortable with os that KDE has 60% share, 
and GNOME - 30%, while the rest is splitted around other WMs or environments.
My estimationn though that KDE has slightly higher share (about 65%), so 
combined GNOME+KDE is about 95%
|
|  > Should XFree86 make focus on 95% of its users or focus on needs of
|  > minority?
|
|  XFree86 should not enforce policy on toolkits/windowmanagers _at all_.

Well, toolkit/desktop users want , say, window transparency - and developers 
for those toolkits/desktops can't implement transparency until it's get done 
on XFree86 level.
Like it or not, but XFree86 has influence on all GUI-based Linux/*BSD apps.
 
|
|  > If someone wants cooperation among XFree86, GNOME and KDE - XFree86
|  > developers (especially *core developers*) should use GNOME and KDE, so
|  > tha needs of those environments become visible.
|
|  Maybe it's time for (another?) fork by you then?  I doubt you'll get
|  very farm though..

I still don't know wether XFree86 Core Team got calmed and started to 
cooperate with Keith Packard, or they still stand on their own.
But in case XFree86 is forked - most likely, I will follow most actively 
developing branch. There is no need to start yet-another-fork.

|
|  > Do you want to use ancient software, which doesn't support standard?
|
|  I want to use useable software.  Usually so-called usablity doesn't
|  really help an experienced use.  But again where it you point?  X is so

We need to keep fat and make X better.
You can't achieve thsi keepong all old stuff.

|  successfull because it doesn't enforce policy.  You can use gnome/kde
|  or twm+xterm over the same protocol, with the same hardware drivers and
|  even use some gnome app under twm or the other way around.  Changing
|  this is a very bad idea.

You can't use modern X apps (KDE, GNOME) with TWM, or other not NetWM-enabled 
Window Manager. This is just one example.

|
|  > |  	And, please, remember that not the whole world of X and Linux
|  > |  users consists of routine-desktop-tasks-only people -- there are lots
|  > | of industrial companies (including rather huge ones) and scientific
|  >
|  > So, what are requirements of those companies?
|  > Can representatives of those companies elaborate, please?
|
|  I doubt they're here on this list.  But ever heard of thing like catia
|  or CAD/CAM applications at all?  Ever saw a mechanical engineer at work?

So, should we bother with those companies if they do not want to join this 
list? :-)

|
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-- 
Best Regards,

Vadim Plessky
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