RE: Your opinion...overnighter turned nasty...

Sorry for the late reply.
Yeah, at 9000', cold weather, rain/fog, windy, 36F...it sounds bad, but depending on your gear, you could have been fine. There were a lot of things, if's & buts that would have made the difference.

1)      Campsite selection: Could you get out of the wind? Any protection from it, larger rocks/boulders or cliffs around? Can you stake a low 8x10 with the Gatewood acting as a wind screen/door blocking spray?  Working together with your partner would have helped with the shelter, minimally.
2)      I would echo Mark's post, all good stuff. Your WM bag and WM down jacket should be kept dry. They should not be sweated in on the hike up the hill. And they should be in an effective dry bag, trash bag, or garbage bag. You didn't say what the ratings on the bags were good for, but I have taken a similar 40F bag down to 27F with long johns/down jacket and dry socks. I slept right through the night, NOT using any other tricks (exercising or covering my head.) If it got much colder, I probably would have woken up and spooned with my partner. A little awkward, but better'n freezing.
3)      Prepare supper under your tarp. This may be a little awkward with two people and a low tarp, but it will warm it up a bit, making you feel happier. Preparing a meal and eating something hot will all help to drive any cold/wet chills away. I often cook 1 cup of water, pour it out into a cup and add 2 more for supper. Add cocoa, or whatever (beef or chicken bouillon is good, too) rest the hot cup on your thighs alternately. Add supper mix to the boiling water. By now the drink should have cooled off a bit...as hot as you can stand, slug it down. A hot cup of whatever, swallowed down in 2 or three gulps,  *will* warm you.  Do about the same with supper. It might not be "proper etiquette" but you'll be warmer.
4)      You and your partner will likely need to take turns, cleaning dishes, and whatever...clean camps are always necessary, even in the rain.
5)      After the door is pretty much closed against the wind & rain, lay out your ground cloth change clothing into something dry. Changing before final cleanup means your dry clothing will get wet. Don't get your "dry gear" wet. Lay out the bivy and sleeping bag and last thing change your socks. If you are cool at this point, that is OK. Climbing into your bag/bivy is your next step.
6)      I would also echo Mark: For one night, do not worry about condensation in down.
7)      Rearrange your cloths as much as possible so they can at least *look* like they should be drying.
You should be good for the night.
You just pretty much reverse all this in the morning. I don't care to risk my dry cloths, but leaving the down jacket on is OK till the tarp/cape are coming down. Then this get loaded with the bag and everything gets packed. I can usually warm up on the trail in 5 min or so.  You might get a bit cold, but there is no danger as long as you are moving. It's OK to linger a bit, if it is cold. I like an extra cup of coffee when it gets down to 25-30F. A few minutes of fast/hard hiking will warm you up after packing, and catch up on time. 'Corse, my old bones are hard to get moving in the morning, anyway.

I am not convinced about the water resistant down. It will wet out in 90-120 min anyway (by the spec.) And, it will likely not help with condensation that much. Even partially wet, I would not want to use it to sleep in.

                My thoughts only . . .
                                Jdm
James D. Marco
302 Mary Lane
Ithaca, NY  14850
607-273-9132 (land), 607-220-9969(cell)

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark Verber
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 4:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] Your opinion...overnighter turned nasty...

I would suggest with the right skills / experience this could have been fine.  I have faced almost identical conditions (typically on the Lost Coast) with less gear. There were transition periods where I was uncomfortable but not in danger.

When hiking I kept myself warm by varying my speed wearing fairly minimal clothing (hiking pants, base, wind shirt, rain shell that went on and off, light hat). I move fast  enough to be warm enough without pulling out my primary insulation and not so fast that I sweat excessively.  While I am able to stay warm enough doing this, my hiking clothing have always ended up pretty wet when I stopped, but that was ok, because I am going to get out of them.

My nunatak ghost down quilt and wm flash vest are in dry bags and stayed there until my tarp is up.  I got under the tarp, stripped off all my clothing, wiped myself down with a hand towel, and then opened up my drybag and pulled out my quilt and immediately got under it and pull on my warm hat. I was chilled, but within 15? minutes I was feeling comfortable.  At that point I started the "manage camp life"... wring out clothing... and either hang it up to drip dry (well, given the high humidity, not so effective), or in the case of my briefs and base shirt put the cold/wet items back one (temporary brrr) and then let it dry with my body heat (around 30 minutes) and make dinner  and hot tea (mmmm). My worst problem is that I move a lot while I sleep and sometimes my feet end up too close to the edge of the tarp and get wet.  To reduce the impact of this I now either use a MLD bivy with a eVENT foot or use a shaped tarp.

As to what you could have done.  A few things come to mind:

0) Figure out what sort of backpacker you are. I have a number of friends who really hate being uncomfortable. They are backpacking to get to places they couldn't see without backpacking. For them, nasty weather = postpone trip.  Nothing wrong with this. I am someone who likes to push myself and find out my limit. That means I am willing to spend time being uncomfortable to learn my limits, though I will never push myself to the point that I think there is excessive risk. Whatever you approach, you need to mentally prepare yourself.  Most people are "done" mentally, before they actually hit physical limits.

1) Get an earlier start.  Nothing shakes my sense of well being as much as hiking in the dark when I am cold and wet, especially if I and not sure where I am or where I am going to be able to stop. Night hiking in the summer on the other hand  is a joy.

2) Practice using your tarp in nasty condition (and know how to do a lock down pitch) and figure out if it's going to work for you, or if you need a larger tarp or something more enclosed. For several years I used a small poncho tarp, and eventually decided it was just too small for nasty weather and switched to something a bit larger / more protective (these days a Zpacks Hexamid).  I would practice two ways.  (1) Whenever we had really bad weather pitch my tarp in an exposed location that had a quick exit - 2 miles - and try to make it through the night. (2) Go someplace that doesn't have a quick exit when I expect bad weather, and bring extra gear (more insulation, supplement to shelter, etc) but NOT use them unless I felt I was moving from uncomfortable or in danger.

3) Build confidence using your insulation. My experience is when it's just one night (or even two), down will be ok even in heavy fog provided you don't get it wet. I would never hike in my warm clothing, and kept my warm clothing and sleeping quilt protected.  That said... it took me years to have the experience and confidence to use down for my my quilt AND clothing.  For many years I used  synthetic clothing which gave be some additional psychological comfort.  These days,  the water resistant treated down could be an option as well.

4) Make sure you have enough food and water.  The coldest / most uncomfortable trips for me have been fairly mild condition where my body ran out of fuel.

--Mark