RE: Re: bug free cowboy camping

Coosa,
                Well, like most things, it dissolves weakly in water. Again, it is difficult to get higher concentrations (>1%) Permethrin without some form of oil or alcohol.
                As far as Sawyer stuff goes. I have heard pros and cons. Personnaly, I think it leaves fabric too dry for a true treatment process to occur. It drys too quickly to effectively attach to fabrics fully and takes much more time and saturation than usually achieved with a spray can. I think of this rather like an egg dye, the longer you leave it in the dye, the stronger/deeper the dye attaches, to a point. Outside layers, then, the inside layers of fabric as the permithrin is bonded/used up on a rather microscopic level.

Here is one statement from the Sawer Site that supports this conjecture:
6. How much permethrin comes off the clothing when laundered?
A strong bond is formed between permethrin and most fabrics. In fact, some insect repellency was observed in military uniforms following 50 launderings. However, the uniforms were treated using an absorption method instead of the aerosol can. In studies performed by the U.S. Army, about 20 to 30 percent of the permethrin treatment was removed after the first laundering. Thereafter, about 3 to 5 percent was lost to each cycle through ten launderings.
Note that this is consistent with  the rinse that I use after dipping and drying is to remove this ~30% excess instead of the first washing as they indicate.   This will leave the inner layers treated, but, also leaves the outer layers with excess, unbounded Permethrin, hence easily washed out. Near 100% permethrin bonding is assured after dipping and waiting about 5-10 minutes before proceeding, what is left IS excess.

I suspect that the aerosol simply sprays a layer on. Again, working from outside to inside, it does NOT carry through to the inner portions of the fabric. The Permethrin has already been bonded. There is little excess to wash out, because the saturation was not complete. This is ignoring what is wasted through the air. An additional layer will achieve a very little more, only wetting the outside layer, but never completely saturating the fiber, unless you really spray on a hevy coat.

Some polyester does quite well. Some does next to nothing. Generally, I avoid it because I cannot say with certainty than a shirt made of some “polyester” will work with Permethrin. PET does NOT. Colors are typically added during melting, not dyed afterwards. Recycled milk jugs as fleece are a good example.
                My thoughts only . . .
                                jdm

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Coosa
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 12:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] Re: bug free cowboy camping




Not that I'm diminishing this risk but isn't this geared more to regular Industrial & Agricultural use & higher percent concentrations than the occasional use of the 5% solution used on backpackers clothing?

I use the pre-mixed Sawyer spray & don't mess with "industrial" or "agricultural" strength & the additives or lack thereof in them. 10% concentrate & add water to reduce to 5%?  What else is in that 10% for its intended use that's not in Sawyer's 5% which is advertised for clothing?

Coosa

This was sent from my iPhone

On Apr 12, 2013, at 11:33 AM, "greatyoga" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:


Occupational Use of 2,4-D, Permethrin Triple the Risk of Parkinson's Disease

(Beyond Pesticides, September 16, 2009) A new study published in the September issue of Archives of Neurology reports that the risk of Parkinsonism doubled with increased occupational exposure to pesticides, including eight agents associated with experimental Parkinsonism. These data add to the growing number of studies that lend credence to a causative role of certain pesticides in neurological disorders.

The study, "Occupation and Risk of Parkinsonism: A Multicenter Case-Control Study," set out to investigate occupations, specific job tasks, or exposures and risk of parkinsonism in collaboration with eight movement disorders centers in North America including, the Parkinson's Institute, CA, Department of Neurology, Baylor College of Medicine and Department of Neurology, Beth Israel Medical Center, New York. The investigation focused on five occupations previously suggested as posing an increased risk of Parkinsonism: agriculture, education, healthcare, welding, and mining. This examination of toxicant exposures included solvents and pesticides putatively associated with Parkinsonism. 519 people with Parkinson's disease and 511 similar people who did not have Parkinson's were studied.

Overall, the study finds that those whose jobs involve using pesticides are 80 percent more likely to develop the condition. The data reveals that any exposure to the herbicide 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D) almost triples the risk of Parkinsonism compared with individuals who report no exposure to the agent. The herbicide paraquat and the insecticide permethrin are also associated with a more than three-fold increased risk of Parkinson's disease.

"Occupational pesticide exposure emerges as the most consistent etiologic association with Parkinsonism," Caroline M. Tanner, MD, PhD, of the Parkinson's Institute in Sunnyvale, CA. Those who worked in agriculture, education, health care, or welding but who had not been exposed to pesticides through their work were not likely to develop the disease. The researchers note that while they did not look at pesticide exposures such as hobby gardening or residential exposure, "because these exposures may affect many more subjects, future attention is warranted."

Previous studies have linked pesticide exposure to the onset of Parkinson's disease (PD), including several published this year alone. A similar study conducted by French researchers found that farmworkers who used insecticides had over a two-fold increase in the risk of PD. Another recent publication found that rural residents who drank contaminated well water had an increased (up to 90 percent) risk of developing PD. Exposure to the pesticides, paraquat and maneb, within 500 meters of an individual's home, increased the risk of developing Parkinson's by 75 percent, according to a University of California, Berkeley study. The Institute of Medicine (IOM) found suggestive but limited evidence that exposure to Agent Orange and other herbicides used during the Vietnam War is associated with an increased chance of developing ischemic heart disease and Parkinson's disease in Vietnam veterans.

Parkinson's Disease is the second most common neurodegenerative disease affecting more than one million people in the U.S. Parkinson's disease occurs when nerve cells in the substantia nigra region of the brain are damaged or destroyed and can no longer produce dopamine, a nerve-signaling molecule that helps control muscle movement. All three pesticides in this study; 2,4-D, paraquat and permethrin, have effects on dopaminergic neurons. All three pesticides are currently registered for use in the U.S. 2,4-D is a herbicide most commonly found in many popular lawn care products, while permethrin is an insecticide (synthetic pyrethroid) found in many mosquito products and residential bug sprays. Both chemicals are already linked to cancer, endocrine disruption and other reproductive and developmental effects. Paraquat is a restricted-use pesticide (RUP) used primarily in agriculture.

For more on Parkinson's disease, please read "Pesticides Trigger Parkinson's Disease," a review of published toxicological and epidemiological studies that link exposure to pesticides, as well as gene-pesticide interactions, to Parkinson's disease and published in Pesticides and You (spring 2008).

Source: Reuters

Feline permethrin toxicity: retrospective study of 42 cases.
Boland LA, Angles JM.
Source

Department of Clinical Veterinary Science, Division of Companion Animals, University of Bristol, Langford, Bristol BS40 5DU, United Kingdom.
Abstract

Forty-two cases of feline permethrin toxicity treated at a referral hospital in Sydney, Australia were retrospectively reviewed. In most cases canine permethrin spot-on (PSO) flea products had been directly applied to affected cats. Most presented during summer and there was an increase in cases during the 2007/2008 period. Clinical signs included; tremors/muscle fasciculations (86%), twitches (41%), hyperaesthesia (41%), seizures (33%), pyrexia (29%), ptyalism (24%), ataxia (24%), mydriasis (19%) and temporary blindness (12%). Treatment involved decontamination, anticonvulsants and supportive care. Methocarbamol was not used. Complications occurred in 33% of cats and included: hypothermia (29%), electrolyte abnormalities (26%), aspiration pneumonia (12%), hypoproteinaemia (12%), anaemia (5%), apnoea (7%), respiratory arrest (5%), cardiorespiratory arrest (2%), pleural effusion (2%), urinary tract infection (2%) and corneal ulceration (2%). One cat was euthanased. Feline permethrin toxicity may result in severe clinical signs requiring intensive treatment. Despite prominent label warnings, cases of feline permethrin toxicity continue to occur in Australia and may be fatal.

Copyright 2009 ESFM and AAFP. Published by Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.

--- In [email protected]<mailto:BackpackingLight%40yahoogroups.com>, Ralph Oborn <Ralph.oborn@...<mailto:Ralph.oborn@...>> wrote:
>
> Please share this evidence.
>
> Ralph
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 11:09 AM, greatyoga <greatyoga@...<mailto:greatyoga@...>> wrote:
>
> > Jerry,
> >
> > I would not go so far as to say no effect. It can be fatal for cats.
> > There is also evidence it can be a prelude to Parkinson's in humans.
> >
> > GB
> >
> > --- In [email protected]<mailto:BackpackingLight%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jerry Goller" <jerrygoller@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I assume the clothes have been allowed to dry completely before wearing
> > them. Since permethrin has no effect on mammals, what happens if the
> > “excess†isn’t washed off?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jerry
> >
> >
> >
> >
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